PAR approaches?

[SkywardET]

The search function found no mention of PAR, so I'm asking here.

How often are PAR approaches required? Do you trust PAR approaches enough to not look outside the cockpit? I've been given those answers before, but not from anyone in the aviation community.

Also, does anyone have any anecdotes regarding their PAR experiences?

 

[Dirty]

PAR approaches are required when you need them! As far as training goes, you'll do enough in the training command when it's req for the X. In the fleet if the WX isnt garbage, you'll typically do them for controller training/proficiency. If you're doing a no shit approach to mins, looking outside the cockpit won't help you anyway! It's a course correction game plus hawking your VSI to mirror that of an ILS (Typically fields with PAR's don't have an ILS but some sort of NP approach like a TACAN/VORDME)

 

[SemperGumbi]

Would I fly one in if I had to? Yup.
Would I much rather do an ILS, ICLS or ACLS? Double yup.

I have actually shot a few approaches down to 200 1/2 in a "Make it in or divert" situation. Only once on a PAR. The time I was on a PAR the mins were probably closer 400 now that I think about it. I have done a ILS assisted PAR before down to no-kidding 'mins', and without the help of the ILS glidepath it would have been a lot mroe sketchy. I think I would have made it, but it would have been harder.

I know of a few airlines that are required to declare an emergency per company policy if they have to do a PAR, so that might give you an idea of how much faith they have in that approach.

 

[Bolter]

Like Dirty said, you'll often shoot them for controller proficiency/ training whenever the weather is good. However, as soon as the weather turns to shit (or if the trainee on the radio is jacking up the PAR), the voice of God will come over the radio. The senior controllers at most military bases are very good at what they do. In short, if the weather is close to mins, you can expect the senior controller to safety get you down. That being said, don't ever let someone fly you into the deck!

 

[ac2NASTY]

I'm not a pilot but will give you any info you request from the controller point of view. I'm currently active duty, air traffic controller, qualified RFC (radar final controller) which allows me to do PAR or ASR approaches.

Bolter and Dirty are right on with the currency/proficiency aspect. There are always controllers training too. That being said when our airfield is IFR no trainees are allowed to do any GCAs. If it is nasty outside there is no room for error concerning a wrong turn or incorrect glidepath call with a trainee on. That and the WX causes extra clutter on the scopes we control off of which makes it harder to get your target sometimes. One of our squadrons regularly does all day missions which result in their RTB in the middle of the night when our field is closed (no controllers present). They will almost always do a TACAN or RNAV/GPS but when the WX is bad they request controllers to come in for a PAR and hold until we arrive.

The only thing I can tell you about currency is that it seems the last few days of the month every Naval pilot and their dog request GCAs, multiple at that. I don't know what the rules/requirements are for pilots but it sure seems like towards the end of the month ALL of them are out trying to get current.

 

[Gatordev]

For those aircraft that don't have any kind of flavor of ILS, the only game in town is the PAR. As such, it's the only way to get your precision instrument mins, which include doing 12/year with 6 in the last 6 months. The reason that AC2 is probably seeing a bunch at the end of the month is because those guys are about to take their instrument check which expires that month, and you have to have the mins before you can take the check.

I've done a kajillion PARs, but only a handful down to anything close to mins. I think by far the worst PAR I've had was down to about 500 feet at Oceana. No glidepath information other than "well above glideslope" followed by "Emergency climb, you're well below glidepath" (in that order). Thanks, how about something in between. Finally, upon breaking out, I was told the airport was in the opposite direction that it was. Thanks, appreciate that. All with a mid in the back along for the ride. The positives of that experience: getting told to slow down due to F-18 traffic ahead of me. Priceless.

 

[MasterBates]

I enjoyed catching up to S-3s in the Mayport PAR pattern. I never went to their house (NIP) to embarrass them though. Should have, never got around to it.

 

[Pugs]

I've done a kajillion PARs, but only a handful down to anything close to mins.

No gyro PAR into Roosey Roads at night, min fuel on the way there from Key Weird. Ugly does not begin to describe that goat rope. Broke out at about 400 and was damn glad the mountain to the south west was not in our face.

This was in the early days of the Prowler MFD's and we were getting a lot DU overheat lights so it shut down both the upper and lower units so no horizon other than the peanut and a wet compass and the BDHI's in back.

 

[nittany03]

No gyro PAR into Roosey Roads at night, min fuel on the way there from Key Weird. Ugly does not begin to describe that goat rope. Broke out at about 400 and was damn glad the mountain to the south west was not in our face.

This was in the early days of the Prowler MFD's and we were getting a lot DU overheat lights so it shut down both the upper and lower units so no horizon other than the peanut and a wet compass and the DBHI's in back.

 

[MIDNJAC]

There is a (presumably student) controller around here that somehow managed to make "above" sound exactly like "below" when giving her glidepath calls. Gave me faith in their PAR skills

 

[bunk22]

I too have done just tons of PAR's in my flight career. Very few were down to mins. One, I was down to 100-1/2...probably less but I picked up the rabbit lights. One out XXX. Most done in IMC conditions were never that bad. Maybe I've had it good

 

[NavAir42]

I don't have near as many hours or approaches as some of the guys on here but the couple times I've actually shot a PAR while actually IFR I had no complaints. The VFR practice PAR approaches can be something different with a new controller, but that's why they have to practice.

 

[HuggyU2]

The USAF has always lived by ILS,... and we're slowly becoming a GPS community, too.
PAR equipment in the CONUS is going the way of the dodo, as combat controller units need the parts.
Personally, if it's down to mins, I would only do a PAR with Navy controllers. USAF controller just don't do that many. I don't know why PAR's are so associated with the Navy, but their proficiency is much better than ours.

 

[stalk]

The reason PARs and the Navy go hand in hand is that Carrier based aircraft were not equipped with civilian ILS. They had CV ILS and ACLS (which is best described as an awkward CATIII system). If the weather was crappy at an NAS you had a chance the ACLS system was up but since it was solar powered and water soluable , chances were you did a PAR.

 

[RockySLP]

There is a (presumably student) controller around here that somehow managed to make "above" sound exactly like "below" when giving her glidepath calls. Gave me faith in their PAR skills

"come left 364...correction...come right 364"