Little real competition in many areas and often times, government 'help' in the form of ownership and loans. And some are not doing so well, like Alitalia.
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Standby for more trouble with the airlines?
- Thread starter Kickflip89
- Start date
Little real competition in many areas and often times, government 'help' in the form of ownership and loans. And some are not doing so well, like Alitalia.
The Postal Service has been profitable sometimes, but your example is still a good one. Amtrak is a perfect example of why nationalization doesn't work.
http://www.reuters.com/article/pressRelease/idUS153348+20-Jun-2008+BW20080620
1. To what end?? Shaken not stirred is a drink ... not a way of life.
2. People who have class. If you don't understand that w/out an explanation ... then you'll never understand that.
3. A lowering of the standards. My Trophy Wife likes Mimosas @ Sunday brunch ... sooooooooo ... what does YOURS drink??
Of course you don't ... as you don't know too much about the airlines and what they do/how they operate/what the regulations/limitations are on them ... all the while trying to operate as a "profit" enterprise. $4 a gallon jet fuel will kill the airline industry. It's a strategic U.S. asset -- what don't you understand about that??? Ever heard of CRAF??
The airlines are the most regulated industry in the U.S. ... and yet they must endure the pretense of "deregulation" that was brought about by politics and politicians in 1978. SWA cheated on the agreement that they originally signed on to in the DFW marketplace ... see 'Wright Amendment' ... had they not ... they would have been restricted or buried by AA, BI, CAL, PAA, and others ....
SWA has been plagued by safety questions in recent times ... all a by-product of a 'low-cost at any cost' mentality. In some cases the planes were allowed to fly for up to 30 months after the inspection deadlines had passed, rendering them unfit to fly. Records indicate that thousands of passengers were flown on aircraft deemed unsafe by federal standards. Southwest declined comment at the time .... there were rumors that the FAA knew about Southwest Airlines violations but decided not to fine the airline because it would disrupt the service of Southwest.
Who you know and who you blow ...
... typical government "interface".I think SWA has had some brilliant management strategies and some average ones that dodged the bullet. They have some great aircrews, a synergistic fleet, same for maintenance, "easy" inflight service, no meals, no international flights, operated from secondary airports, had minimal code shares, and little/no baggage check. They have pioneered some good ideas in the industry and their early pilots retired as millionaires due to stock provisions. But so did I at a "legacy" airline just workin' for the man and takin' care of business.
I worked for one former SWA CEO who was a care-taker at a former airline of mine. He was an idiot. I don't think any airline "deserves" a government bail-out. I think government should either re-regulate the airline industry or be honest and get out of it -- completely.
When the playing field is even ... then we'll see who "knows how to fly ... "
You really NEED to get out of government (someday) and go to work for in an industry that HAS to turn a profit to live and breathe .... then mebbe you'll get it -- someday. Otherwise ... economic/philosophical pablum and sophistry will continue to be the order of your day.
The cheap euro airlines, like easyjet, ryanair, etc. lease planes vs owning them. They also fly into the smaller regional airports.
They have consistenetly made a profit, why can't the others?
2. People who have class. If you don't understand that w/out an explanation ... then you'll never understand that.
Class? By who's definition? Some antiquated one that doesn't fit anymore?
Whose standards? Yours? And like a good subject of the Queen, tea.
Business is business, and plenty in the run under a lot of regulation. The airlines might operate under more than most others, but how can some airlines consistently make a profit (still) when others can't seem to get their act together?
CRAF? Eh, there are plenty of airliners here in the US, we are not going to run out anytime soon. Southwest has plenty........
Are you suggesting we go back to regulation? Isn't that a bit......socialist?
Southwest 'cheated'? HA! I am familiar with the Wright Amendment, a law passed specifically to limit flights out of Southwest's hub, Love Field. Am I getting that wrong? Oh, and who were their competitors at DFW the time? Wouldn't that be Braniff, your old airline? And look who is still flying.
Many airlines have had safety issues, yet Southwest has one of the best safety records still in the domestic airline industry, with only one flight related fatality.
And let the airlines regulate themselves? The FAA may have its problems, but to let the airlines regulate themselves? That is a good one......:icon_smil
How is the playing field supposed to be leveled? And who says it is supposed to? I thought business was the survival of the fittest, may the best man win, etc. If airlines can't compete in today's enviroment, then why should they survive at all. Some seem to be doing fine and still making a profit, but others....well, may the best airlines win.
You really NEED to get out of government (someday) and go to work for in an industry that HAS to turn a profit to live and breathe .... then mebbe you'll get it -- someday. Otherwise ... economic/philosophical pablum and sophistry will continue to be the order of your day.
Why should I? I like serving my country, not a bottom line. Not only that, I like my job. I couldn't do it as a regular civilian, so why change?
As for my economic philosophy, I like capitalism, especially our version of it. I don't like the Canadian or European model, where they ensure a 'level playing field' through regular government intervention. Anti-trust laws and some government intervention is good, but a government ensuring a 'level-playing field' by extensive regulation of an industry, like the airlines before 1978, is a bit too far. A little bit too much like this:
jorgelito
PRO-REC INTEL
Oil is priced in US dollars on the market. The dollar is weak and the Euro is strong so fuel is relatively cheaper for the European airlines to purchase. Also, not all is rosy for the Euro carriers, I believe Swiss Air was bought out cause they couldn't stay afloat a couple years back. Many of the airlines also get subsidies from their governments I believe.
jorgelito
PRO-REC INTEL
I don't understand let what go?I wanted to pass ... but I just couldn't let this go ... and as a result; the "correct" answers follow:
Ok
What does this have to do with what I wrote? I merely said there were American pilots flying for foreign carriers. When did I ask for "blue links" and what does that have to do with my "real world knowledge"? What do you mean by their companies meaculpaed them?2. Only 'cause the LIPs (Local Indigenous Personnel) could NOT hack the program ... don't ask me for any "blue" links -- if you always have to "go there" then it's a sign that you have not accumulated too much "real world" knowledge(s) .... I've trained 'em, their companies have 'mea culpa'ed them, and they have paid $$$$$$$$$$$$ for their misdeeds, and I've been doing this for >30 years ...
So then I am correct in my assertion that Singapore Airlines has a good record. I used "I think" because I couldn't be sure if that was still the case. Last I remember, they had a zero accident record but I think there may have been one crash from a subsidiary airline a few years ago. Since I couldn't be sure, I used the phrase "I think". Why are you bringing race into this? What does that have to with anything?
Singapore Air has had one crash:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singapore_Airlines_Flight_006
Only reason I remember is because I was living there at the time and it was a huge deal.
jorgelito
PRO-REC INTEL
Thanks for the clarification and the link. It was the Silk Air crash I was thinking of. Now I remember the Singapore crash. I remember it was a big deal because they had such a good reputation and there was some controversy over whether or not it was actually their fault or the airport staff etc's fault. Taiwan's record being what it is, I would give the benefit of the doubt to Singapore airlines.
Roger that: and while you're patting yourself on the back for your great and good government service -- ask the troops we flew and military cargoes we delivered to Hickham, Yokota, Osan, Manila, Singapore, Al Jubail (sp?), Bahrain, Mogadishu, Frankfurt, many, many more and too-many-to-mention CONUS stops during Gulf 1, before & after ... ask 'em if the airline guys were "serving their country" when they gave us -- those young Marines that we'd hauled from LeJeune over a 3 day evolution gave us -- gave us, mind you, -- 3 cheers (a real tear-jerker I might add) after they formed up and marched off to the waiting trucks in the middle of the night post-delivery by those lazy, overpaid, bottom line-oriented airline guys -- all shortly after Saddam had rolled into Kuwait and we were trying to "draw a line in the sand" w/ bandaids.
Our biggest fear that night was that some SCUDS might come rollin in according to the "best intelligence available" -- that was the 10-foot tall Republican Guard that we feared then -- and all we had to defend ourselves with was good intentions and our little short-sleeved white airline shirts ....
Serving the "bottom line", my ass.
*edit* ... I forgot to add:
Well, here's the deal-io, sport. And I'm not tryin' to be nasty or anything ....
But since you've never spent a day working for the airlines and you don't know jack-shit about how they work -- from the inside or the outside -- why don't you try to throttle back a little bit and listen & learn instead of trying to tell us who HAVE paid our dues that the earth is round instead of flat??? We already know the score -- we're way ahead of you.
And while I'm at it; I don't think I'm gonna be able to impart 40+ years of experience to you in a website forum, as good as this one is ...
So asking questions is one thing; having an opinion is fine. I know you think your opinion "counts" and all the happy-horseshit that comes w/ that ... it's just that most people's opinions don't matter and aren't worth a shit ... O.K. ???
*edit* I forgot to add:
jorgelito
PRO-REC INTEL
Fair enough A4s, I just wanted some clarification as the posts are not always clear. I for one, would like to hear you talk about your experience with the foreign airlines, especially since you trained their pilots. You are correct, I don't work for an airline but I am a frequent flyer. As such, I offered my opinion in this thread in that capacity. After all, a diversity of opinion and the right to express that opinion is what makes our country so great and why so many gave their lives for.Well, here's the deal-io, sport. And I'm not tryin' to be nasty or anything ....
But since you've never spent a day working for the airlines and you don't know jack-shit about how they work -- from the inside or the outside -- why don't you try to throttle back a little bit and listen & learn instead of trying to tell us who HAVE paid our dues that the earth is round instead of flat??? We already know the score -- we're way ahead of you.
And while I'm at it; I don't think I'm gonna be able to impart 40+ years of experience to you in a website forum, as good as this one is ...
So asking questions is one thing; having an opinion is fine. I know you think your opinion "counts" and all the happy-horseshit that comes w/ that ... it's just that most people's opinions don't matter and aren't worth a shit ... O.K. ???
*edit* I forgot to add:
But I think you may be reading too much into my posts, as I'm not sure where exactly you think I am "throttling" too much. My posts are fairly neutral and benign. By the way, I think you are not giving yourself enough credit; your 40+ years of experience are very well received and a valuable contribution to this website forum.
Cheers
We need to get that to be a procedure, maybe someone on the next AW NATOPS board can make that happen...
Harrier Dude
Living the dream
A4s can take criticism just like everybody else. You'd just better be sure that you have all your shit in one sock before bringing it to him. His bullshit detector is finely tuned, and as you might have noticed, he's not shy about letting you know that you've pegged it.
There are people on here that know more about a lot of things than he does, but that "list of things" does not include Naval Aviation or airline operations.
You want to skool him on PS3 or gangsta rap, then go right ahead. Just stay in your lane of expertise.
There are people on here that know more about a lot of things than he does, but that "list of things" does not include Naval Aviation or airline operations.
You want to skool him on PS3 or gangsta rap, then go right ahead. Just stay in your lane of expertise.