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40% of F-15, now grounded, never to return to fleet

We can speculate as much as we want, the plain and simple fact is that its about $$$$. I can't see the USAF spending that much dime on JSFs for the T-birds, especially with the current situation in the middle-east. Regardless of it being a recruiting tool, funding will always dictate what is feasible.
 
Inveredflyer- I understand what you are saying and it is a crazy thought. But the Air Force started using F16's when they were six years old in 1982, and the Blue Angels started using F/A-18's when they were six years old in 1987. That was in the middle of the Cold War.

Its not like the resources are being lost, if they needed the jets, or pilots, they can always disband the squadron and use the jets, pilots where they are needed.

I think you might not fully understand how important the air show business is too military services.
 
Lightning26 said:
Inveredflyer- I understand what you are saying and it is a crazy thought. But the Air Force started using F16's when they were six years old in 1982, and the Blue Angels started using F/A-18's when they were six years old in 1987. That was in the middle of the Cold War.

Its not like the resources are being lost, if they needed the jets, or pilots, they can always disband the squadron and use the jets, pilots where they are needed.

I think you might not fully understand how important the air show business is too military services.
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Hmmm. yeah I'm gonna go ahead and disregard that statement. I can guarantee you that i understand it, however what YOU need to understand is that combat platforms have priority over funding when in a wartime environment.
 
Lightning26 said:
Inveredflyer- I understand what you are saying and it is a crazy thought. But the Air Force started using F16's when they were six years old in 1982, and the Blue Angels started using F/A-18's when they were six years old in 1987. That was in the middle of the Cold War.

Its not like the resources are being lost, if they needed the jets, or pilots, they can always disband the squadron and use the jets, pilots where they are needed.

I think you might not fully understand how important the air show business is too military services.
Click to expand...

We aren't getting 750 F-22s.
 
invertedflyer said:
Hmmm. yeah I'm gonna go ahead and disregard that statement. I can guarantee you that i understand it, however what YOU need to understand is that combat platforms have priority over funding when in a wartime environment.
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I agree, but it depends on the wartime environment you are talking about. Korean war yes you are right. Vietnam yes you are right. But this war in the middle east right now is not one of those wars. I can guarantee you that right now the Blue Angels can get any part they want over any F/A-18 squadron in the fleet. If they need extra funding for other stuff they will get it. I can't say that for any other squadron. Should it be that way? probably not. But it is the way it is.
 
Acquiring parts for an airframe that you already have is far different than taking a $60 million stealth fighter and flying it with the Thunderbirds. Those JSFs are going to the fleet first, that I can guarantee you. End of discussion.
 
I do have to agree that airshows are highly important, witht the Blue Angels being the Navy's number one recruiting tool.
 
Lightning26 said:
charlies and deltas in 2009. But they still plan on going to a new platform around 2020.
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Or delta (singular) as the case may be. Last I talked to anyone they are still in the good ol' A model as well. As are some of the fleet guys on at least the Marine side. Granted, they are modded to be basically a charlie, but nonetheless.
 
Alpha model hornets are in demand right now for fleet squadrons. The low traps and hours make them pretty valuable to fleet squadrons (once they have been upgraded to A+ that is). I hope some one in one of the squadrons that has the A+ can weigh in but as I understand it, bigger engine, same avionics as a charlie, and a moderately lighter air frame make it a fun bird to fly.
 
Lightning26 said:
Inveredflyer- I understand what you are saying and it is a crazy thought. But the Air Force started using F16's when they were six years old in 1982, and the Blue Angels started using F/A-18's when they were six years old in 1987. That was in the middle of the Cold War.
Click to expand...

Not that Simple. T-Birds suffered horrendous crash of lead and 3 wingmen when he had a control problem and they dutifully followed him into the ground. That was in 1982 when F-16 production was ramped up and T-38s were in shorter supply (USAF was even trying to get their early production T-38s back from Navy) so they transitioned early.

Lightning26 said:
I think you might not fully understand how important the air show business is too military services.
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As noted, Flight Demonstration Teams exist for Public Relations (they fly reporters and other VIPs everywhere they go) AND recruiting. From the first line in their mission:

The Blue Angels’ mission is to enhance Navy and Marine Corps recruiting efforts and to represent the naval service to the United States, its elected leadership and foreign nations.
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Although T-Birds are owned by ACC, Blue Angels are funded out of Navy Recruiting Command. If you watched any of Military Channel specials on either team that features aspriants "rushing" the team, you saw how the public relations part is often the determinant (with aviation skills being equal).
 
cisforsmasher said:
I hope some one in one of the squadrons that has the A+ can weigh in but as I understand it, bigger engine, same avionics as a charlie, and a moderately lighter air frame make it a fun bird to fly.
Click to expand...
As opposed to a Hornet that is not fun to fly?
 
invertedflyer said:
Acquiring parts for an airframe that you already have is far different than taking a $60 million stealth fighter and flying it with the Thunderbirds. Those JSFs are going to the fleet first, that I can guarantee you. End of discussion.
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The Air Force version is cheaper than $60 million. I never said that they wouldn't go to the fleet first. Of course they would have to set up a training pipeline and a few squadrons. I said I would almost bet they would transition to JSF's around 2015. Which is almost the decade you said, so I don't see what you don't agree about.

I know the Navy plans on doing it around 2020 (will it happen? probably not) but I don't see the Navy flying a better jet in a AIR demonstration.

Here is an example of the Air Force's messed up thinking:

Col. Thomas flew to Hill AFB, Wednesday, to bring home the first-ever Thunderbird Block 52. Over the next 12 months, the team will transition to the newer, faster version of the F-16, with the first all-Block 52 demonstration to take place in 2009.

The 11 current Block 32 Thunderbird jets will eventually be refurbished and returned to combat-capable status for use in squadrons around the Air Force.

This is from the Thunderbirds website. Don't you think the fastest most expensive F16's should be supporting the war?
 
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