Spin Training

[GaugeNeeded]

I've got a question. I was out yesterday evening flying and I didn't have anywhere to go, so I was doing some manuevers. I was having a lot of fun with Lazy 8's and things when I went into some power on stalls. Well, I was staring inside at the gauges a little too much when the a/c stalled, it entered a good spin. I wasn't expecting it, and luckly I was high enough to recover. But it wasn't me that recovered the a/c. It just stopped spinning. This exposed a real weakness in my flying. Does anyone here have any suggestions on conducting good spin training and maybe the acronyms for recovery? I'd ask an instructor type, but they are on vacation and why not ask the pros?

 

[Single Seat]

What were you flying? A 172 and most training aircraft will recover hands off.

 

[scoober78]

Obviously depends on what you are flying as Single Seat pointed out. The common thread seems to be though, neutralize controls, power to idle...pause.... opposite rudder if you are in a spin.

Have you had spin training at all before? Probably not a good idea to put yourself in a similar situation without it. Seems like a real weakness of civilian training...

Any one with more experience...please...feel free to light me up.

 

[GaugeNeeded]

A Cardinal 177RG.

 

[TheBubba]

Obviously depends on what you are flying as Single Seat pointed out. The common thread seems to be though, neutralize controls, power to idle...pause.... opposite rudder if you are in a spin.

Have you had spin training at all before? Probably not a good idea to put yourself in a similar situation without it. Seems like a real weakness of civilian training...

Any one with more experience...please...feel free to light me up.

Agree with scoob on this one... that recovery is essentially the confirmed spin recovery boldface for the T-2...

I'd not spin an aircraft unless you've had formal spin training. Its not a good place to put yourself in. We've got a million and a half rules for when and how to intentionally spin a plane... for good reason too. Its OCF flight pointed at the dirt. (The 2 ejection-seat aircraft I've flown [T-6 and T-2] end the spin recovery procedures with "If recovery not indicated passing XXXX feet, eject")

 

[Tom]

With a 200 hp RG plane your power on stall is going to be a little more interesting than a 100 hp fixed gear plane. Were you at full power at the time, or some reduce setting for training? I'm guessing pretty high pitch attitude, some good p-factor, lack of right rudder correction and then wing drop. Did you get actual rotations in? There's a chance you may have entered a steep spiral instead of a spin.

Spin training will most likely involve just riding a spin longer than your average spin...it's a good experience. IMO, you had a great learning experience. I doubt you will had problems with coordination again. All it takes is once. I was doing power on stall in an Arrow in the climb configuration and ended up with not enough right rudder. Right wing dropped hard and fast and all of a sudden I'm point in the ground. Surprised me, but I just added left rudder and released the back pressure. My CFI was quiet for a long time and then said, "I saw that coming but wanted you to experience it." Right...it made for an interesting first flight in a higher power complex aircraft. I don't have coordination problems any more.

 

[millerjd]

I've got a question. I was out yesterday evening flying and I didn't have anywhere to go, so I was doing some manuevers. I was having a lot of fun with Lazy 8's and things when I went into some power on stalls. Well, I was staring inside at the gauges a little too much when the a/c stalled, it entered a good spin. I wasn't expecting it, and luckly I was high enough to recover. But it wasn't me that recovered the a/c. It just stopped spinning. This exposed a real weakness in my flying. Does anyone here have any suggestions on conducting good spin training and maybe the acronyms for recovery? I'd ask an instructor type, but they are on vacation and why not ask the pros?

Always been a fan of the 177RG, but if you want spin training, you'll need to do it in an approved aircraft with an instructor. Most flight schools prohibit learning spins because it wears down the DG. So you will want to find a flight school and aircraft that will either allow you to cage the DG or allow you wear the DG down quicker than normal.

I suggest pulling out the FAR/AIM and make sure you follow guidelines on spin training, these rules have changed over the recent years.

EDIT: I can look up the FAR when I get home, but I also believe that stalls (even with a PPL) are to only be done with instructors. The reason for the rule was probably people getting into similar situations as yours but "freeze" and end up buying the farm.

 

[bunk22]

You're lucky, at least in that it happened up high and recovered on its on. Be careful bud.

 

[Tom]

Always been a fan of the 177RG, but if you want spin training, you'll need to do it in an approved aircraft with an instructor. Most flight schools prohibit learning spins because it wears down the DG. So you will want to find a flight school and aircraft that will either allow you to cage the DG or allow you wear the DG down quicker than normal.

I suggest pulling out the FAR/AIM and make sure you follow guidelines on spin training, these rules have changed over the recent years.

EDIT: I can look up the FAR when I get home, but I also believe that stalls (even with a PPL) are to only be done with instructors. The reason for the rule was probably people getting into similar situations as yours but "freeze" and end up buying the farm.

Spin training is only required for initial CFI applicants (I assume in airplanes only). You have to receive dual time and I think an endorsement. I'm not positive on the endorsement but I got one. Spin awareness is required for all check rides seeing as it is a special emphasis item.

 

[Schnugg]

Wasn't the gnemonic for stalls something like this.... (it's been a while so a CFI please jump in here)

Max...max power
Relax...relax the aft stick (forward even)
Roll...roll wings level
Recover....recover when you have airpseed

If you are spinning, it's almost the same except you add opposite rudder if you don't recover right away after the first two steps.

Best advice is in your aircraft owner's manual's stall/spin recovery procedures.

Key thing to remember in any plane is if you have airpseed you're not spinning, your spiraling very quickly. You have to stall to spin.

 

[TheBubba]

Max relax level ball

 

[FelixTheGreat]

Spin endorsements and training are only given to initial CFI applicants. Doing spins in a utility category aircraft for any other reason are viewed by the FAA as aerobatics so you better have parachutes on board.

I always teach my fledgling students P.A.R.E. for spin recovery;

Power - Idle
Alierons - Neutral
Rudder - Full opposite
Elevator - Forward to break the stall

 

[HAL Pilot]

EDIT: I can look up the FAR when I get home, but I also believe that stalls (even with a PPL) are to only be done with instructors. The reason for the rule was probably people getting into similar situations as yours but "freeze" and end up buying the farm.

There are no manuevers for which the FAA requires an instructor be in the airplane. If the manuever is in the PTS, a pilot holding that level of certificate is required to be able to conduct the manuever safely without an instructor present.

 

[FLYTPAY]

Fatherhood from a CFI....don't spin an aircraft unless you have had proper training. Recovery from a spin as taught by a CFI is for an emergency procedure which you were in. Congrats, you lived. Spins intentionally performed are aerobatic which is a totally different animal..and aircraft. My recommendation is to not do lazy 8's, chandelles, or wifferdales unless you are practicing for your commercial license and this is after you have been properly instructed by a CFI.

 

[HAL Pilot]

...and things when I went into some power on stalls. Well, I was staring inside at the gauges a little too much when the a/c stalled, it entered a good spin. I wasn't expecting it, and luckly I was high enough to recover. But it wasn't me that recovered the a/c. It just stopped spinning. ...

The plane did not enter a spin because it stalled. The plane entered the spin because it was in uncoordinated flight when it stalled. Why the plane was in uncoordinated flight (ball not centered) is what you have to figure out and it was undoubtedly caused by something you did. The most common reason is a pilot stomping on a rudder when a wing drops off in the stall.

The basic spin takes two things: a stalled wing and uncoordinated flight. Break the stall or regain coordinated flight and the spin stops. This is why for most light GA aircraft just letting go of the controls will stop a spin. GA planes are designed so that they do not naturally stay in uncoordinated flight. Therefore releasing the controls usually results in a return to coordinated flight and breaks the spin. Pulling power off and letting go of the controls works even better.

If that doesn't work, as Dmitri said the FAAs method is:
1. power off to minimize altitude loss
2. neutralize the controls
3. opposite rudder
4. nose down to break the stall

Fatherhood from a CFI....don't spin an aircraft unless you have had proper training. Recovery from a spin as taught by a CFI is for an emergency procedure which you were in. Congrats, you lived. Spins intentionally performed are aerobatic which is a totally different animal..and aircraft. My recommendation is to not do lazy 8's, chandelles, or wifferdales unless you are practicing for your commercial license and this is after you have been properly instructed by a CFI.

I agree that someone who has never had spin training should not go out and just try it. But as far as lazy 8s, stalls, chandelles, etc. go, as I said in my last post anyone with a pilots license should be able to safely perform any maneuver in the PTS for that level of license with or without an instructor. In fact, the FAA can decide they want to see you demonstrate it at any time too. Normally they only do this for a reason (post incident/accident or you were observed by them being unsafe or incompetent) but they can require any pilot to demonstrate any portion of the PTS for their level of license whenever they please. If a pilot can not fly these maneuvers solo then he needs to get with an instructor and get proficient so he can.