Navy vs Air Force

[SteveG75]

Well, the first post sounds like it was written by a SWO. If I had to generalize about SWO's, they are all bitter and angry (just kidding for our SWO brethern). But the surface Navy bears even less relation to Tailhook aviation that the USAF does.

If the second post (Bob Norris) makes you want to go USAF, then I have to conclude that you are a lost cause. That description of the Chair Force would make me run (not walk) to the nearest Navy recruiter.

As for why I joined the Navy. My eyes weren't good enough to be a pilot. The USAF treats backseaters like third (maybe fourth class citizens). I was privileged to fly (IMHO) the two best NFO airplanes in the world. The mighty A-6E Intruder and the indispensable EA-6B Prowler. I had a contract for four years after wings and here I am twenty years later about to retire. The Navy has thrown all kinds of challenges at me and it has never been dull. Painful and aggravating at times, but never dull.

One last thought. The Navy has traditions going back 200+ years. The USAF has habits going back 50.

 

[Treetop Flyer]

I like the better quality of life and the greater opportunities to fly heavies in the AF, but I hate the politics and the bureaucracy BS, not to mention the UAVs. So I'm going to ask a simple question. Why did you personally choose the Navy over the AF, and are you happy with your decision?

Stuff like this has pushed me more towards the AF. In your experiences, is it accurate?

First, I wouldn't put much weight in the first experience you posted. That guy is obviously a SWO, and I think that Navy guys will tell you that SWO's are a whole different animal than aviation types. If you really want to fly heavies, and that's your top priority, then the AF is probably your best bet. The Navy has E-6's and P-3's and eventually P-8's, but the AF has more heavies. They also have UAV's though.

 

[helolumpy]

My only advice is think about the job outside of flying. If the adventure of deploying on ships 'floats your boat' (bad pun, I know.... sorry) then consider the Navy.
If would rather be based at bases both in garrison (not deployed) and when deployed, then consider the Air Force. Plus the Air Force will normally have beer available, even when deployed.

When you get down to it, flying is flying. You'll probably think whatever you're flying is the best kept secret in the world.

In my opinion the Air Force has more 'class warfare' within their pilots with folks flying transports and helicopters being much more of a lower class than the Navy views non-TacAir type.

However, if you're in the Air Force and wearing pilot wings then you are the whole reason the service exists. In the Navy you are always fighting with your two step-brothers, Surface and Subs for funding and primacy within the service.

Both services will have great people and ass-holes so you're gonna run into both. But I would caution you against only taking a couple of data points of opinions. If you ask people who are quitting a job, whether its a military service or a job at Wal-Mart, chances are, they'll have negative things to say about that employment. Get as many opinions as you can and determine what's best for you.

I grew up around the ocean and the Navy seemed more suited towards my likes. Of course I was in high school when Top Gun came out and that obviously have a very strong influence on many people of my generation.

If you think you can handle the adventure of deploying on ships, then the Navy is the way to go. If you would rather operate from established bases, then the Air Force is probably best.

Hope this helps...

 

[HueyCobra8151]

If this picture doesn't settle things for you, then nothing will.

 

[Bad News]

Well, the first post sounds like it was written by a SWO. If I had to generalize about SWO's, they are all bitter and angry (just kidding for our SWO brethern). But the surface Navy bears even less relation to Tailhook aviation that the USAF does.

If the second post (Bob Norris) makes you want to go USAF, then I have to conclude that you are a lost cause. That description of the Chair Force would make me run (not walk) to the nearest Navy recruiter.

As for why I joined the Navy. My eyes weren't good enough to be a pilot. The USAF treats backseaters like third (maybe fourth class citizens). I was privileged to fly (IMHO) the two best NFO airplanes in the world. The mighty A-6E Intruder and the indispensable EA-6B Prowler. I had a contract for four years after wings and here I am twenty years later about to retire. The Navy has thrown all kinds of challenges at me and it has never been dull. Painful and aggravating at times, but never dull.

One last thought. The Navy has traditions going back 200+ years. The USAF has habits going back 50.

The "Chair force" thing is what pushes me toward the navy. The problem with Bob's description is that he highlights the negatives of the navy "long tedious deployments, away from family a lot more" but not the negatives of the Air Force.

I'd much prefer to live on dry land, but I also prefer the adventure of the navy. It all boils down to this. If I can handle boat life, I'd much prefer the Navy. One Navy pilot select awaiting flight school told me "you have everything you need there. You don't feel like you absolutely need to get off after the first month." Do you agree with this?

 

[vicariousrider]

The "Chair force" thing is what pushes me toward the navy. The problem with Bob's description is that he highlights the negatives of the navy "long tedious deployments, away from family a lot more" but not the negatives of the Air Force.

I'd much prefer to live on dry land, but I also prefer the adventure of the navy. It all boils down to this. If I can handle boat life, I'd much prefer the Navy. One Navy pilot select awaiting flight school told me "you have everything you need there. You don't feel like you absolutely need to get off after the first month." Do you agree with this?

Just to throw in a paltry two cents here, as I have no experience in the Naval Aviation community as of yet:

My father, who served 4 years in the USAF, convinced me that I needed to join the Navy when I was making a decision to enlist in the service. 10.5 years later, I am quite satisfied with the choice I made - but again, this is from the enlisted transitioning to commissioned standpoint.

 

[SteveG75]

The "Chair force" thing is what pushes me toward the navy. The problem with Bob's description is that he highlights the negatives of the navy "long tedious deployments, away from family a lot more" but not the negatives of the Air Force.

I'd much prefer to live on dry land, but I also prefer the adventure of the navy. It all boils down to this. If I can handle boat life, I'd much prefer the Navy. One Navy pilot select awaiting flight school told me "you have everything you need there. You don't feel like you absolutely need to get off after the first month." Do you agree with this?

Bob is highlighting the reality of the Navy. It is the challenge that drives us, not the uniformity. OK, here is a summation of my varied, but never dull career.

~800 A-6E hours, ~1200 EA-6B hours, 485 traps
12 years at Whidbey (3 fleet squadron tours, 2 RAG student tours, 1 RAG instructor tour)
4 WESTPAC cruises
1 MED/LANT cruise on an amphib
Deployed on 12 hours notice to do hurricane relief in Galveston as part of a Tactical Air Control Squadron
A year in Iraq doing Counter-IED work with the Marine Corps (honestly, the most rewarding tour I have ever had)
A year in Newport RI at the War College

I have been to the following places (some multiple times), all on the Navy's dime:
Hawaii
Hong Kong
Singapore
Osan, Korea
Pusan Korea
Yokusaka and Tokyo
Iwo Jima (lucky divert)
Okinawa
Atsugi
Guam
Perth Australia
Dubai
Oman
Bahrain
Kuwait
Iraq
Naples and Rome
Souda Bay
Malta
Sigonella
Rota
Gibraltar

And that is just OCONUS. I have also flown all over the US.

The boat is the boat. Eat, sleep, fly. Everything is within 1000 feet. And when you pull into port, liberty call......

As a final note, let me mention that the USAF has never been thrown out of any place. Tailhook was thrown out of Las Vegas. Now, which group do you want to party with????

 

[Bad News]

This thread makes me smile. It really says something about the Navy that many of you are trying to convince me to go this way. I've been over to BO.net, and when asked about their job many of them talk about how crazy they're being driven by the disco belt shenanigans and such. One more small piece of information that I couldn't seem to find from my searches, how often are you deployed on the boat? Do you get deployed once a year? or less?

 

[PhrogLoop]

I like the more down to earth atmosphere in the Navy as well as the travel, but I hate cramped boat life and long tedious deployments. I like the better quality of life and the greater opportunities to fly heavies in the AF, but I hate the politics and the bureaucracy BS, not to mention the UAVs.

I agree that the letter from the angry shoe (I think he was a submareener) should be thrown out for cause. And the second letter is just perfect in its description of the differing mentalities of the two services. Having been both a student and instructor in AF squadrons and a fleet Naval Aviator in Navy squadrons, I've lived on both sides of the fence. There are positives and negatives in both the Air Force and Navy, but know that they are extremely different and if you are leaning one way, it's probably for a good reason. If you like the comfort of structure and organization, go with the Air Force. You will be issued a stack of publications as high as your ascot and you will be expected to know and adhere to every reg in that stack. If you are studious enough to memorize that stack, you will become a General someday. If you deviate from any single reg in that stack or forget the cover sheet on your TPS reports, you will get hammered by every one of your eight bosses. In the Navy, you are issued a much shorter stack of pubs and those pubs teach you every system in excruciating detail then tell you what you should NOT do while flying. Outside of that, you're trusted to utilize your good judgment to bring your bird and crew back home safely. The reason why you'll constantly feel in over your head in the Navy is that we deploy in much smaller units with much less support than the Air Force and so your ground job (leading troops or writing schedules etc.) will take up lots of time and energy and you're constantly balancing that with improving as an aviator. Air Force bases are great, and the squadron always seems to have EXTRA money in September for flight hours, flight suits, office furniture, and plasma screens. Navy bases are less than 4 star and the damned copier never works even when it has paper. That said, the Navy is second only to the Vatican as a purveyor of real estate (location, location, location). I really think that you'll be happy if you make your decision weighing the culture of the service you choose a little bit more than the type of aircraft or deployment schedule (unless you're already married). You will most likely love whatever aircraft you fly in either service. I've flown jets, props, and helos, Vietnam era relics and birds straight from the factory and they all kick ass. Good luck!

 

[helolumpy]

This thread makes me smile. It really says something about the Navy that many of you are trying to convince me to go this way. I've been over to BO.net, and when asked about their job many of them talk about how crazy they're being driven by the disco belt shenanigans and such. One more small piece of information that I couldn't seem to find from my searches, how often are you deployed on the boat? Do you get deployed once a year? or less?

Of course this is subject to change:
A squadron will be on a 18-24 month cycle. You will deploy for 6 months (possibly up to 9, but 6-7 is about 90% normal). You'll get home and the squadron will stand down for about 6 months. During the stand down you'll be in a 'surge' status so they could deploy you again if needed, but this is usually the time that the squadron will go through a large manpower turnover within the ranks.

After the stand down period you start work-ups. For a carrier squadron this process is something like:
TSTA I&II - 2-3 weeks at sea
about 2-4 weeks home
TSTAIII & COMTUEX - 4-6 weeks at sea
about 2-4 weeks home
Airwing Fallon - 4 weeks in Fallon Nevada
about 2-4 weeks home
JTFEX - 5-7 weeks at sea
about 4 weeks home (people take leave here)

Deploy again.

The times will vary depending on East/West Coast and what's going on with the world. Due to events on-going, this schedule can be completely trashed and something rewritten at the last minute. These were the pre-9-11 standards and once things calm down a bit, I will expect the Navy to go back to the routine.

Once you start working up you can expect to do lots of Unit Level Training (ULT) which is flying with your squadron to build skills and quals needed to deploy. You can expect to do some road trips to places like El Centro, Key West and Fallon if you're a 'pointy nose' type. ASW helo crews on the East Coast get to do a week or two down on Andros Island in the Bahamas to work on ASW skills (pretty good deal, actually!!). You squadron will usually set up some kind of training at other bases to develop specfic skills needed for the crews like ACM, Strike, ASW, CSAR/TERF/NSW, etc.

You will also gets lots of other 'good deals' but it depends on your community. If you a helo guy you can expect to pull lots of CQ periods, VertRep dets, or cover ships while they go out for a few days to a few weeks.
If you an E-2 or P-3 guy you can expect a few trips down to warmer climates to looks for boats and planes travelling north... I think you can figure that one out.

 

[helolumpy]

If this picture doesn't settle things for you, then nothing will.

But they also have...

 

[jtmedli]

As a final note, let me mention that the USAF has never been thrown out of any place. Tailhook was thrown out of Las Vegas. Now, which group do you want to party with????

That should be on a recruiting poster...where do I sign up? :icon_smil:icon_zbee

 

[desertoasis]

As a final note, let me mention that the USAF has never been thrown out of any place. Tailhook was thrown out of Las Vegas. Now, which group do you want to party with????

Sold.

 

[FlyBoyd]

It would be an easy decision for you if you could see the AF IPs at VT-31/35 here in Corpus Christi. It is like they won the golden ticket for a tour at Willy Wonka's Chocolate Factory. They drag their heels and ask for extensions every chance they get. Funny how they try to be "Navy" while they are here.

I grew up in an AF town so enlisting in the Navy was easy. FWIW, I wish I would have paid more attention to the USCG.

 

[Bad News]

I think the Bureaucracy will drive me crazier than living on a boat will. I guess I'll have to think about it. I do note your positive attitudes. Most of you seems to have no significant complaints about the Navy, just the schedule. Anyway, I came across this:

First off, the Navy simply doesn't have as many pilots. That's just not their "purpose" in the joint arena. The Air Force's "purpose" is centered around aviation, so it would only make sense that more of a percentage of its force are fliers. That having been said...

Naval Aviation is MUCH more stringent in it's selection of pilot candidates. I was NROTC for my first two years of college until I realized that really was no way I was going to get a slot. The main reason for that was because the competition for a slot was so high that I essentially had to be perfect over 4 years to compete. By my junior year, I realized that simply wasn't going to happen, so I examined my options and figured out that AFROTC was still really competitive, but not as bad as NROTC (my senior year the Navy had 44 slots nationwide, the AF had 112). I made my decision, and am well beyond thanking God that I did. Quality of life in the AF seems to be (I have many Navy friends) well above that of any of the other services, as well as the training you receive.

As far as the AF is concerned, if you already have your license, you will have a worlds-worth of advantage over those that don't. By going through the screening program at Pueblo, you'll already have your ticket, but it definitely is an advantage if you have you license ahead of time. It also is a nice addition in getting selected in the first place.

I'm sorry, but I really don't know of any websites.

Hope this helps--I'd love the name of the recruiter so I can ask him about his recruiting practices. If you have any other questions don't hesitate to email me.

Is this correct in assuming that navy slots are near unattainable?