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Europe under extreme duress

I don’t think it’s remotely accurate to imply we aren’t keeping our word. U.S. contributions have kept the Ukraine in this fight and have run into the billions when it comes to dollars. Even Europe is getting tired and is, gently, pressuring the Ukraine to make some move towards peace. Just a quick look shows us, in terms of systems, we’ve provided…

STUFF
And yet now we are lifting sanctions on Russia, decrementing Starshield's capability in their support, buying products from Russia, and yelling at them for executing their most effective strategy - attacking Russia's energy infrastructure.

Peace will come from Russia, and it will happen when they think they can't win. Trump is helping them think they can.
 
And yet now we are lifting sanctions on Russia, decrementing Starshield's capability in their support, buying products from Russia, and yelling at them for executing their most effective strategy - attacking Russia's energy infrastructure.

Peace will come from Russia, and it will happen when they think they can't win. Trump is helping them think they can.
I don’t disagree, but the POTUS has differing priorities (for the moment, he’ll change his mind again in a few weeks). Trump’s attempt at lowering fuel prices before the midterms are, of course, pointless and really aren’t offering Moscow much of an economic lifeline. But, it has to be abundantly apparent that the concept of “economic warfare” is about an effective path to victory as strategic bombing was in WWII. It messes things up, no one quits until too many young men die. Apparently Russia is a lot tougher than they were during the Afghan war where mothers started protesting openly when casualties reached about 25,000. The metrics are in place for both nations to fail but there isn’t a single Western leader on the horizon who is willing to do the only thing that can guarantee a Russian defeat…commit troops to the fight.

Maybe this is our actual “forever war.” We keep a fleet blockading the Gulf (while occasionally lobbing a few missiles) and continue to pour dollars into the Ukrainian fight hoping that Russia (and Iran) will eventually break.
 
Russia is an adversary in decline, one that now has minimal impact on the US and can be handled by a European Union that has 4 times the population and 20 times the GDP - but a European Union that would rather spend limited money on their own citizens and rely on the US to pay for everything. We have $40 Trillion in debt, interest on that debt now exceeds our defense budget and a retirement crisis is looming - we must prioritize.

China is the pacing concern. A nation with 4 times our population, a GDP equal to our own, a near monopoly on rare earths and massive manufacturing to include 200x our shipbuilding capacity.

The rabid focus on Russia and the unconcern with China is a major misplace of priorities. Russia and China have their own history of conflict that should be triangulated, not welded together.

Containing Russia and preventing them from aiding and abetting avowed enemies such as Iran is not mutually exclusive with mitigating China. Both can be accomplished with the right strategic positioning.

Lifting sanctions Russia’s shadow fleet and buying their diesel directly will only give them more money to feed the war machines of Ukraine and Iran (the latter in the form of explosives and drone components, among other things).

If we want both of those conflicts to continue indefinitely, this is how to do it.
 
We gave them our word.
We gave them the same UN 'assurances' like any other country gets.

And the 'word' came from Clinton, who "did not have sex with that woman".

If you are so passionate about it, I assume you have personally given funds or deployed???
 
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Lifting sanctions Russia’s shadow fleet and buying their diesel directly will only give them more money to feed the war machines of Ukraine and Iran (the latter in the form of explosives and drone components, among other things).
The fact that we are doing this - especially with the fact its impact on U.S. diesel prices will be virtually nil - is incredibly hard to justify.
 
Maybe this is our actual “forever war.” We keep a fleet blockading the Gulf (while occasionally lobbing a few missiles) and continue to pour dollars into the Ukrainian fight hoping that Russia (and Iran) will eventually break.
I mean the Generals / Admirals have to have a war to play with, even if we aren't directly involved. I did the GWOT and have had my fill of land wars in Asia.

There is no realistic way the Russia / UKR thing ends in anything other than a settlement. We are burning time, money, and lives in Z-mans forever war.

I'm sorry UKR was too stupid to keep their nukes. That is on them and Clinton.

But it's not our war.
 
deployed???
Many times over 30 years, yes.

There is no realistic way the Russia / UKR thing ends in anything other than a settlement. We are burning time, money, and lives in Z-mans forever war.

Why is it Ukraine's forever war and not Putin's? I mean, who started it?

As long as Putin thinks he has a chance, he is going to fight.

I know that steely-eyed international negotiator Jared Kushner is a highly experienced tough nut, but I think Putin is laughing at the generous stupidity of the Americans.
 
Many times over 30 years, yes.
To the Ukraine front????

LMFAO.

Why is it Ukraine's forever war and not Putin's? I mean, who started it?

As long as Putin thinks he has a chance, he is going to fight.

I know that steely-eyed international negotiator Jared Kushner is a highly experienced tough nut, but I think Putin is laughing at the generous stupidity of the Americans.
You sound passionate. When are you going back to the front lines to help the UKRs???

All I care about is it not being our next forever war.

But feel free to send your money, time and why not your children.

I mean it hits you in the feels, go for it.
 
To the Ukraine front????

LMFAO.


You sound passionate. When are you going back to the front lines to help the UKRs???

All I care about is it not being our next forever war.

But feel free to send your money, time and why not your children.

I mean it hits you in the feels, go for it.
You make it sound like we're sending trillions of dollars and boatloads of high school seniors over to Ukraine like it's Vietnam. We've sent 400 million dollars over the last 18 months and exactly 0 combat personnel. That's the equivalent of like 1.7 days of Iran War spending. You're worried about the wrong potential forever war.
 
You make it sound like we're sending trillions of dollars and boatloads of high school seniors over to Ukraine like it's Vietnam. We've sent 400 million dollars over the last 18 months and exactly 0 combat personnel. That's the equivalent of like 1.7 days of Iran War spending. You're worried about the wrong potential forever war.
Yeah, I want to avoid getting our people involved - but the UKR lovers here want us to send more money and get involved more direct with 'support troops' and we all know how that goes.

And our aid has dropped from over $120BN to $400M; which is great.
 
we all know how that goes.
Here is how it goes. The war ends when Putin decides he can’t win. The sooner he decides that, the sooner the war ends. Or the sooner he falls out a window.

For a person without morals who thinks everyone has a price and therefore economic incentives (diesel!) are the key, they will find this baffling. But for anyone who understands that Putin has all the money he needs and that he grew up as a KGB agent in the USSR and yearns for the greatness lost, they'll understand this is about emotions.

UKR lovers
I get that that sort of unserious argument tactic flies high in the circles you frequent, but it makes you sound dumb in professional circles.
 
I've recently added RHINOCHARLESLINDBERGHWSO to my Ignore list. My blood pressure is thankful.
Delicate flowers with thin skin can't take opposing viewpoints.

Too funny, so typical.

Enjoy "The View".

iu
 
but the UKR lovers here want us to send more money and get involved more direct with 'support troops' and we all know how that goes.
I don't think everyone you disagree with here is in favor of sending troops, though some may be. I think a common argument among the "UKR lovers" in our country is that the money and weapons we've sent is keeping Russia tied down and degrading their ability to wage a regional war (much less WWIII) against NATO, much like what we did with Afghanistan in the 80s. That is a strategic objective that is very much in our interest, and overall comes at the expense of Ukraine, since their population is being bled by it. I think if we really loved Ukraine, we'd have admitted them into NATO, invoked article 5, and sent troops a long time ago.
 
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