Hardware is identical, but then there is software, ownership, and control.
obviously Z-man donna undaszanda dat good.
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Europe under extreme duress
- Thread starter Randy Daytona
- Start date
obviously Z-man donna undaszanda dat good.
Let me guess "unnamed officials report...."
Ah yes...
“according to four sources familiar with the discussions.”
“One of the sources said Mr Trump ‘agreed’ with Mr Musk’s suggestion, paving the way for the Pentagon to execute the slowdown on Starshield…”
“A high-ranking European official and two well-placed Ukrainian sources confirmed this version of events.”
But I thought Kash Patel was landing in ROOOOOOOSHA the other day....?
"MS NOW Corrects Report On FBI Director Kash Patel Landing In Russia: “We Regret This Error”
123412131
Future DOR statistic
Anonymous sourcing is standard and I don't see why that's contentious. Do you want them to name their sources and invite retaliation? As for the MS NOW correction, it has nothing to do with the Telegraph. They're unrelated outlets, and one's error says nothing about the other's reporting.Let me guess "unnamed officials report...."
Ah yes...
“according to four sources familiar with the discussions.”
“One of the sources said Mr Trump ‘agreed’ with Mr Musk’s suggestion, paving the way for the Pentagon to execute the slowdown on Starshield…”
“A high-ranking European official and two well-placed Ukrainian sources confirmed this version of events.”
But I thought Kash Patel was landing in ROOOOOOOSHA the other day....?
"MS NOW Corrects Report On FBI Director Kash Patel Landing In Russia: “We Regret This Error”
If you're concerned about the Telegraph's reporting or its sources, Reuters separately reported that the Starshield order came from within the White House according to US officials.
Trump waives several Russia sanctions as row with Zelensky intensifies
The US president temporarily ends many restrictions on Moscow recently passed by Congress over "national security" concerns.
www.bbc.com
We're living in the upside down. I'm sure the mental gymnastics will be Olympic level.
Was listening to the noted historian Victor Davis Hanson and he mentioned that Ukraine’s population was 51.7 million at the breakup of the the Soviet Union in 1991/92, was 41 million at the beginning of their war with Russia in 2022 and now some estimates have it as low as 28 million (in the areas it still controls) due to war, a 0.9 birthrate and emigration to other countries. That percentage drop is comparable to the black death in Europe in the 1300’s.
Trump waives several Russia sanctions as row with Zelensky intensifies
The US president temporarily ends many restrictions on Moscow recently passed by Congress over "national security" concerns.
We're living in the upside down. I'm sure the mental gymnastics will be Olympic level.
I guess the fundamental question is, is Russia an enemy or not?
Sure seems like they are to me, but you’d never know it from the way this administration is treating them.
There is a nuance to this.
Russia is Ukraine's enemy. Russia has been and still is an adversary of the United States, but I don't see them as an enemy.
Just because something isn't great for Ukraine, or it might be sort of favorable for Russia, doesn't mean the United States shouldn't do it if it's good for us.
And most reasonable people don't see a military solution for either country.
I mean if you want to go and fight Russia, have at it. Or get your kids to go and fight. It's a free country.
Russia is Ukraine's enemy. Russia has been and still is an adversary of the United States, but I don't see them as an enemy.
Just because something isn't great for Ukraine, or it might be sort of favorable for Russia, doesn't mean the United States shouldn't do it if it's good for us.
And most reasonable people don't see a military solution for either country.
I mean if you want to go and fight Russia, have at it. Or get your kids to go and fight. It's a free country.
Russia is an adversary in decline, one that now has minimal impact on the US and can be handled by a European Union that has 4 times the population and 20 times the GDP - but a European Union that would rather spend limited money on their own citizens and rely on the US to pay for everything. We have $40 Trillion in debt, interest on that debt now exceeds our defense budget and a retirement crisis is looming - we must prioritize.
China is the pacing concern. A nation with 4 times our population, a GDP equal to our own, a near monopoly on rare earths and massive manufacturing to include 200x our shipbuilding capacity.
The rabid focus on Russia and the unconcern with China is a major misplace of priorities. Russia and China have their own history of conflict that should be triangulated, not welded together.
So why are we fighting Iran again?
If the European Union should be handling Russia, why shouldn’t Israel be handling Iran? So we can focus on the pacing concern?
We are at war with Iran. Russia backs Iran. We are helping Russia. That will help Iran. Make sense of that for me.
You familiar with the Budapest memorandum? Which codified Ukraine giving up almost 2000 nuclear weapons in return for security guarantees? We signed it.
The Budapest Memorandum gave Security Assurances, basically the normal UN Assurances, not new, military backed security guarantees.
Any sort of treaty would have required Senate approval, which it never would have gotten.
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We gave them our word.
I don’t think it’s remotely accurate to imply we aren’t keeping our word. U.S. contributions have kept the Ukraine in this fight and have run into the billions when it comes to dollars. Even Europe is getting tired and is, gently, pressuring the Ukraine to make some move towards peace. Just a quick look shows us, in terms of systems, we’ve provided…
AIR DEFENSE:
3 Patriot batteries with munitions
12 NASAMS systems with missiles
HAWK systems with missiles
Over 3,000 Stinger missiles
20 Avengers
VAMPIRE counter-UAS systems with munitions
Vehicle-mounted anti-drone guns and ammo
Laser‑guided C-UAS rocket systems
Anti-aircraft guns
Integration equipment (launchers, radars, etc.)
Sustainment and support gear for Ukrainian systems
21 mobile air surveillance radars
FIRES:
40+ HIMARS systems with launchers and rockets
Ground-launched small-diameter bombs and guided rockets
200+ 155 mm howitzers with over 3 million rounds and 7,000+ precision 155 mm rounds
72 105 mm howitzers and 1 million 105 mm rounds
10,000 203 mm artillery rounds
Hundreds of thousands of rounds across 152 mm, 130 mm, and 122 mm calibers
60,000 GRAD rockets
Over 300 mortar systems and 700,000+ mortar rounds
Over 100 counter‑artillery/mortar radars and 50 multi-mission radars
MANEUVER:
31 M1A1 Abrams tanks and 45 T‑72B tanks
300+ Bradley IFVs and 4 Bradley FST vehicles
900+ M113 APCs, 400+ Strykers, 400+ M1117 ASVs
1,000+ MRAPs, ~5,000 HMMWVs, 200+ light tactical vehicles
300 armored medical evacuation vehicles
Support vehicles: trailers (200+), trucks (80+), fuel tankers (239) with trailers, water trailers (58), armored utility vehicles (6)
29 armored bridging systems, logistics, command post, ammunition support, recovery vehicles (153)
Ammunition: 125 mm, 120 mm, 105 mm tank rounds; 1.8 million 25 mm rounds
Mine-clearing equipment
AIRCRAFT & UAS:
20 Mi-17 transport helicopters
Switchblade, Phoenix Ghost, CyberLux K8, Higher-600, Jump-20, Hornet, Puma, Scan Eagle, Penguin, Raven UAS
2 UAS radars
Anti-radiation missiles (AGM-88 HARMs)
Air-to-ground munitions and aircraft rocket stocks: 6,000+ Zuni, 20,000+ Hydra-70
F-16 support gear
ANTI-ARMOR & SMALL ARMS:
10,000+ Javelin systems
120,000+ assorted anti-armor systems and ammo
10,000+ TOW missiles
50,000+ grenade launchers and small arms
Over 500 million rounds of small arms and grenades
Laser-guided rockets, rocket launchers, anti-armor mines
MARITIME:
2 Harpoon coastal missile systems
100+ patrol boats
Unmanned coastal defense vessels
Port and port-security gear
OTHER ONGOING SUPPORT:
M18A1 Claymore mines; C‑4 demolition charges; obstacle placement gear
Counter-air-defense systems
100,000+ sets of body armor and helmets
Secure tactical communications and SATCOM (antennas, terminals, services)
Electronic warfare and counter-EW kits
Commercial satellite imagery subscriptions
Night vision, thermal optics, rangefinders
Critical infrastructure protection tools
EOD/UXO detection and protective equipment
CBRN protection
Medical supplies (first-aid, monitors)
Field, cold-weather gear, generators, and spare parts
Training, maintenance, and logistical sustainment services