Marksmanship

[Random8145]

I still don’t follow your logic. Lawyers in Congress can have a lower ethical standard than SEALs in Congress?

No, but it surprises me less if a lawyer politician gets caught doing something bad then if a SEAL does (or at least it did). So I mean I am (or was) more expecting of good behavior from the SEAL.

 

[JTS11]

Then his friend and fellow Montanan, former SEAL Team 6 member Ryan Zinke who was Secretary of the Interior at the time (and later had to resign over ethical issues), got him his first big contract with the U.S. federal government.

Zinke also made his interior Dept staff raise a special flag over the HQ building when he was on deck, and then lower it when he departed.

What a douchebag...😂

Edit: Forgot to post the link

Trump's Interior Secretary Make Staff Raise a Special Flag When He's Around

Ryan Zinke's flag ritual comes comes from military history

time.com

 

[hlg6016]

Good way to telegraph your movements to people with ill intent.

 

[number9]

What if you view not compromising as how you get what's best for your constituents?

How's that working out for us lately?

 

[Hair Warrior]

No, but it surprises me less if a lawyer politician gets caught doing something bad then if a SEAL does (or at least it did). So I mean I am (or was) more expecting of good behavior from the SEAL.

Rethink that.

 

[taxi1]

I really didn't want to go political with my original question, I was truly wondering what a .45 caliber would do to an arm and whether an immediate shooting injury was easily confused with one that occurred 3 years earlier. But man...that Naval Officer has woven quite a web. After having read the book Alpha: Eddie Gallagher and the War for the Soul of the Navy SEALs, I can see the culture at work.

 

[Random8145]

I really didn't want to go political with my original question, I was truly wondering what a .45 caliber would do to an arm and whether an immediate shooting injury was easily confused with one that occurred 3 years earlier. But man...that Naval Officer has woven quite a web. After having read the book Alpha: Eddie Gallagher and the War for the Soul of the Navy SEALs, I can see the culture at work.

So was this guy really guilty or was he railroaded? I know the book he wrote to defend himself explains he is innocent and the "Alpha" book explains he's guilty. The innocent story says the SEALs who turned him in were low-ranking "woke" millennials who were jealous and just didn't like him, while the opposite says he was a drug using alcoholic who risked his team members' lives to be able to kill others.

 

[sevenhelmet]

Good way to telegraph your movements to people with ill intent.

You mean like every admiral ever?

 

[taxi1]

So was this guy really guilty or was he railroaded? I know the book he wrote to defend himself explains he is innocent and the "Alpha" book explains he's guilty. The innocent story says the SEALs who turned him in were low-ranking "woke" millennials who were jealous and just didn't like him, while the opposite says he was a drug using alcoholic who risked his team members' lives to be able to kill others.

You should read the book.

The more interesting questions are about SEAL community culture.

 

[ABMD]

Well I don't mean anyone should get an actual pass on ethics, just that I would expect the SEAL to be a better person. Like if a politician is a lawyer and gets caught doing something crooked, I will probably think, "Well that's typical," whereas if a SEAL is caught doing it, then I find it more surprising.

Haven't been around NSW much have you?

 

[Random8145]

Haven't been around NSW much have you?

I am guessing that is for Naval Special Warfare, in which case, nope. Sad to learn if the SEALs have a problem with unethical members.

 

[JTS11]

I am guessing that is for Naval Special Warfare, in which case, nope. Sad to learn if the SEALs have a problem with unethical members.

I think you're kind if fetishizing a particular community. There are unethical folks in every designator of the military...same as any profession. Arguably, the military screens better and then weeds out people with these flaws?...but that's just conventional wisdom. Not sure why you think SEALs are some exception.

 

[sevenhelmet]

I think you're kind if fetishizing a particular community. There are unethical folks in every designator of the military...same as any profession. Arguably, the military screens better and then weeds out people with these flaws?...but that's just conventional wisdom. Not sure why you think SEALs are some exception.

To extend this point slightly, some would even argue that a streak of rebelliousness can be an asset in some communities within the military- provided it does not go too far. What constitutes "too far" quickly becomes a highly contested subject. That's a subject that entire books have been written around, and could populate an entire forum by itself.

BLUF: SEALs are no better (or worse) than anyone else when it comes to ethics and moral judgment. They're just trained differently and operating in a different environment than most of us. As such, they have to be very selective of certain qualities- not all of which will align with an outsider's expectations.

 

[Notanaviator]

To extend this point slightly, some would even argue that a streak of rebelliousness can be an asset in some communities within the military- provided it does not go too far. What constitutes "too far" quickly becomes a highly contested subject. That's a subject that entire books have been written around, and could populate an entire forum by itself.

BLUF: SEALs are no better (or worse) than anyone else when it comes to ethics and moral judgment. They're just trained differently and operating in a different environment than most of us. As such, they have to be very selective of certain qualities- not all of which will align with an outsider's expectations.

Another way to look at this and @Random8145's points, I think I've gotten to the point where I look at politicians all the same way, regardless of background. As we all know, any community in and out of the military has its assholes, prima donnas, etc., but I feel like there's an increasingly common denominator of folks who would even want to be elected officials these days, especially at State and Federal level, and it's not 'servant leader' types. So I think this is more selection bias - there are good SEALs and asshole SEALs I'm sure, but playing 'who wants to be a Congressman' is probably statistically more likely given political climate to draw from the latter population.

 

[GroundPounder]

To extend this point slightly, some would even argue that a streak of rebelliousness can be an asset in some communities within the military- provided it does not go too far. What constitutes "too far" quickly becomes a highly contested subject. That's a subject that entire books have been written around, and could populate an entire forum by itself.

BLUF: SEALs are no better (or worse) than anyone else when it comes to ethics and moral judgment. They're just trained differently and operating in a different environment than most of us. As such, they have to be very selective of certain qualities- not all of which will align with an outsider's expectations.

The point that I was going to make, except clearer and more briefly stated.

Think about it like this @Random8145 , how many of the top software coding people would also be the best person to go out and sell the final product? Two different skill sets, that don't often intersect.

The personality traits that make someone thrive in the NSW community might also be potentially problematic if not restrained by leadership, policy and/or culture of a command. Supposedly, the Army's Tier 1 unit has not had as many issues since they source people that are older and have been exposed to the other side of the military versus SEALs which predominantly come from the civilian world straight in to special operations.