MIG-23 Ejection/Crash this past weekend . . . .

[MIDNJAC]

It's hard to blame it on someone else when you are the only one in the room

I don't think I ever passed a room inspection, not once.

Reminds me of my JO 4 man, where our TO lived with us. One very early morning after a late recovery, some random MMCPO and his posse forcibly entered our room and began an inspection. There was an untagged XBOX plugged in right next to said TO's head, who was deep in sleep. He yelled out "Master Chief, there is no XBOX here!" haha

 

[FLGUY]

I thought the TACAIR community generally didn’t wear gloves as a cultural thing, similar to the way that O2 masks are used less than 100% of the time? Met a few VFC reservists awhile back who said “yeah I can count on a fingerless glove how many times I’ve worn gloves in the cockpit” ?

 

[sevenhelmet]

Issue gloves suck. They’re hot, and the fingertips have a seam that hurts dexterity in the modern cockpit.

Quick story: I once flew with a senior pilot in transport-category flight test who gloved up with mil-issue flying gloves for every single takeoff and landing, no matter what. Then he’d unglove shortly after turning on the AP, or clearing the runway. Every. Time. I respected and learned a lot from that pilot, but that’s not a practice I have ever adopted.

When I’m flying something with an ejection seat (still my day job), Wiley-X fingerless gloves for the win. They’re comfortable enough I often forget I have them on. I’ve used them for years, and unit supply used to obtain them before a deployment. Still using my last USN-purchased set from Daddy Warbucks.

 

[zipmartin]

I thought the TACAIR community generally didn’t wear gloves as a cultural thing, similar to the way that O2 masks are used less than 100% of the time? Met a few VFC reservists awhile back who said “yeah I can count on a fingerless glove how many times I’ve worn gloves in the cockpit” ?

As an old A-7 guy who became a TAR and finished up my last 10 years doing the VC/VFC thing in A-4's before retiring, I can say that the majority of the guys I served with didn't wear gloves. I did have an A-7 CO who was adamant about wearing gloves, even around the boat, and I remember a CO of another squadron who had suffered severe burns while flying Spads who was obviously a very pro-gloves guy. Most of us also rolled our sleeves up, especially in the A-4 because it was so stinking hot - the a/c didn't work until the engine rpm was above about 70% so the canopies were always open on the ground. While in the VC/VFC world, if I was below 24k', I had a boom mic I wore much of the time which made it far easier to look back over my shoulder, though I was usually looking forward through the gun sight. ?

 

[Gatordev]

I thought the TACAIR community generally didn’t wear gloves as a cultural thing, similar to the way that O2 masks are used less than 100% of the time?

There's several threads on this in the past, usually with Chuck surprised to learn what was mentioned in a previous thread, where he was also surprised to learn the same thing.

A lot of it goes back to how 3710 was written in a time before there was such a thing as fingerless gloves (or at least "approved" versions). 3710 stated gloves were not required over water due to water egress and survival. The Koch fittings on an ejection seat are a bitch to release with the old school gloves in the water when being dragged and the old SV-2 had some clips (leg straps, lobe straps, and the leash clip) on it that were much harder to manipulate with wet gloves on. Also that annoying chest clip on wearable parachutes was a pain in the ass to find and release with gloves on when wearing a vest with inflation.

3710 was revised some time in the early 2000's-ish where it removed the above blurbage. About that time, the CMU-33 was coming on line which allowed better dexterity (even though it still sucked), in part by just removing leg clips, which was just dumb. They then went through several iterations of leg strap releases. Koch fittings are still Koch fittings, though, so no help there. By 2008-2010, "approved" fingerless gloves started to be come available for open purchase.

@sevenhelmet A month or two ago, I got an email from Outdoor Research that said they started making their Overlord gloves again, albeit with a new design. I haven't tried them, but my Gen 1 Overlord gloves are light years better than the Wiley-X. If/when yours wear out, you might want to check out OR. OR also gives a nice .mil discount.

 

[jollygreen07]

@sevenhelmet A month or two ago, I got an email from Outdoor Research that said they started making their Overlord gloves again, albeit with a new design. I haven't tried them, but my Gen 1 Overlord gloves are light years better than the Wiley-X. If/when yours wear out, you might want to check out OR. OR also gives a nice .mil discount.

Just got some OR Overlord gloves. Can confirm.

 

[sevenhelmet]

@sevenhelmet A month or two ago, I got an email from Outdoor Research that said they started making their Overlord gloves again, albeit with a new design. I haven't tried them, but my Gen 1 Overlord gloves are light years better than the Wiley-X. If/when yours wear out, you might want to check out OR. OR also gives a nice .mil discount.

I appreciate it. I’ll have tried the Overlords and like them for the most part. Heavier construction and they last 3x longer than the Wiley Xs. The Overlord leather dye tends to come off on sweaty hands a bit. The biggest issue though, is they are usually damn near impossible to find.

 

[FLGUY]

Glad to see the Naval aviation culture still likes bending certain rules when it makes sense. I was worried we had turned into the USAF for a second ?

 

[Gonzo08]

A month or two ago, I got an email from Outdoor Research that said they started making their Overlord gloves again, albeit with a new design. I haven't tried them, but my Gen 1 Overlord gloves are light years better than the Wiley-X. If/when yours wear out, you might want to check out OR. OR also gives a nice .mil discount.

Our squadron just put in a 7F buy for Overlords. It'll be my first time wearing them, but everyone I've met who has them, loves them.

 

[insanebikerboy]

Our squadron just put in a 7F buy for Overlords. It'll be my first time wearing them, but everyone I've met who has them, loves them.

I love them for everything but flying, I still have a pair I got in 2008. Way too thick. The Wiley-X gloves are great for tactile feel.

 

[Brett327]

I thought the TACAIR community generally didn’t wear gloves as a cultural thing, similar to the way that O2 masks are used less than 100% of the time? Met a few VFC reservists awhile back who said “yeah I can count on a fingerless glove how many times I’ve worn gloves in the cockpit” ?

I think what you’ve laid out here is generally false.

 

[Gatordev]

The Overlord leather dye tends to come off on sweaty hands a bit.

I personally didn't experience that, or if I did, it was so short-lived, it was a non-issue. What I do find is the leather palm starts to turn very dark from sweat and whatever random POL fluids may be lingering on the controls or CDU control. I never preflighted in my gloves, so it was just from accumulation over time in the cockpit.

I love them for everything but flying, I still have a pair I got in 2008. Way too thick

The 2008 versions were not great, I agree. They adjusted their sizing and material a little bit and the fit on the later Gen 1s were MUCH better and the material not as thick. Still probably thicker than the Wiley's, but after sweating in the refresh versions for 6 months, I could still get my hand in and out without issue, unlike the originals.

When I wore a hole in my early Gen 1s and switched to the refresh ones, it was definitely an improvement. I retired still wearing the second set and flew with them again in '21 when I was flying the -60 again. Still going strong. Now I just wear them in the winter here the few times it gets really cold. The cyclic gets chilly and I can't really run the heat on in the -135 for more than about 45 seconds before we all want it off again.

 

[jmcquate]

Interesting discussion with a couple of "Constant Peg" guys.

 

[KODAK]

Interesting discussion with a couple of "Constant Peg" guys.

For those who haven’t had the pleasure of watching/ listening to any of Steve Davies incredible work this is a great video with two USAF aviators who actually flew the MiG-23! Other than the aircrew involved themselves, this is likely the best analysis that we will get to see on the mishap.