Being Gay in Naval Aviation

[SynixMan]

We had two gay pilots in my fleet squadron (2012-2016) and some in my VT instructor tour (2016-2019) as well. So it was definitely common.

Your peers will be your same age and relatively accepting. I’d say the 90/10. The minority that isn’t will probably just be quietly disapproving vs openly agitating.

As mentioned above, some of our duty station locations (south Texas, FL gulf coast, Alabama) are less accepting than others. Fleet duty stations (San Diego, JAX, Norfolk, Whidbey, Pt Magu) are more urban and probably easier to find community outside work. As a student, your community will mostly be your student peers just due to studying and schedule density.

 

[IKE]

If you're heavily anchoring on one thing in your life to build your entire personality around you're the weird guy to anyone who doesn't do that thing. Whether that's flying, or the Navy/Marine Corps, or doing drugs, or craft beer, or playing music, or baseball, or politics, or religion, or lumberjacking or whatever.

What if you're obsessed with expensive watches and shitty donut shop coffee? Not that I'm thinking of anyone in particular ...

 

[nittany03]

Whidbey

urban

OK, let's not get carried away here.

 

[FormerRecruitingGuru]

The argument can be made 98% of the folks on here have some sort of gay in them.

 

[MIDNJAC]

OK, let's not get carried away here.

haha I was gonna say the same thing. Unless you want to count the vast metroplex of Burlington/Mt Vernon/La Conner

....to be fair, there is a food co-op and a Target.....

 

[WhiskeySierra6]

OK, let's not get carried away here.

You can throw Lemoore in this category as well.

 

[Jstalz]

If you're an officer and a Naval Aviator first, I wouldn't expect anyone to give you grief about your personal life. If you wear your personal life like a chip on your shoulder, expect special treatment because of it, and let it define who you are more than the service and the mission... in that case, you could expect a lot of friction.

In short, be professional, and nearly everyone will treat you with dignity and respect, as they should.

That definitely seems to be the consensus here and I appreciate all the input.

Obviously since I haven't commissioned yet, I don't know, but I would think that most gay people serving don't expect special treatment. At least for me, special treatment is the exact opposite of what I want. I just want my sexuality to be something people don't think twice about, not in a good way nor in a bad way. It's an important part of me, but it's not something that defines me.

When we talk about personal vs. professional life, the impression I get is that those are kind of intertwined particularly during flight school because as @SynixMan said, your peers are your community. I guess that's why I wanted to post about this topic because I'd still like to have a comfortable personal life and be able to grow socially (meet people, date, etc.) while I study to hopefully earn the title of Naval Aviator.

 

[Jstalz]

No not really, you may still hear people throw around 'that's so gay', or use gay in deragatory ways, but I've never seen it be directed at a person specifically. You definitely wouldn't stand out or be excluded because of it.

In flight school it sucks because a lot of the places you may go don't have a big population, let alone gay population. You dating pool is small inside and outside of naval aviation. Pensacola isn't too bad, but Kingsville is terrible. Outside of flight school, Jacksonville, Norfolk, San Diego are all decent and have a more non navy population which makes it better, but there's still some places you could go to that aren't great.


Feel free to message me after you commission, there's some facebook groups that are good for making connections, Pensacola specifically has a pretty active/big group, lots of brunchs and other stuff.

Overall though, it's typically not a big deal, but you may still be the only or one of the few gay people in your squadron but it's not a bad thing.

So it seems like it's not the naval community that would be an issue, it's just the places I might be spending time during flight school may be pretty sparse in terms of finding places to fit in?

I'm from NY and haven't spent much time in areas like Texas, the Florida panhandle, and Mississippi, but I would assume that Pensacola would be a pretty cool place to be. Not only speaking about terms gay community, but like is Pensacola fun at all or does it get old? Do you even have much downtime to have a social life or are you mostly studying and working all the time?

 

[Jstalz]

We had two gay pilots in my fleet squadron (2012-2016) and some in my VT instructor tour (2016-2019) as well. So it was definitely common.

Your peers will be your same age and relatively accepting. I’d say the 90/10. The minority that isn’t will probably just be quietly disapproving vs openly agitating.

As mentioned above, some of our duty station locations (south Texas, FL gulf coast, Alabama) are less accepting than others. Fleet duty stations (San Diego, JAX, Norfolk, Whidbey, Pt Magu) are more urban and probably easier to find community outside work. As a student, your community will mostly be your student peers just due to studying and schedule density.

Is there any consensus on what fleet duty stations that are considered the best to be stationed at? Obviously you don't have much of a choice especially depending on what aircraft you end up in...

 

[850flyem]

I got out of the Navy a year ago and am planning on applying for OCS very soon. No body cares about your sexuality. If anything, it will be beneficial for you due to the ''diversity'' aspect that will come in play when placing you in leadership positions or applying for advanced schools. Believe it or not, but it's true. The one and only time I have ever seen anybody have an issue with a gay sailor, and I worked with PLENTY of openly gay sailors, was when we had an LPO who was extremely over the top and inappropriate, would make comments to other male sailors about their looks, and I kid you not, they had a box of roughly 2,000 condoms and at least two gallons of lube in their office. This LPO would also invite junior sailors to their drag show every weekend. They were removed from their leadership position for being inappropriate and essentially sexual harassment of the male sailors. As you can see, the rules are the same for gay folks as they are for any other kind of folks.

 

[850flyem]

I also live in the Pensacola area. There are a handful of clubs in downtown and Palafox street has a ton of restaurants, make sure to visit Ponce De Leon Springs and Morrison springs while in the area, only about an hour and a half from NAS Pensacola.

 

[SynixMan]

Is there any consensus on what fleet duty stations that are considered the best to be stationed at? Obviously you don't have much of a choice especially depending on what aircraft you end up in...

San Deigo and Pt Magu are probably highest on the list, but Jax and Norfolk/Va Beach are big enough to be able to support an LGBTQ community. As @nittany03 pointed out, Whidbey is Seattle-ish but it's also an island that's 90 minutes outside Seattle. That being said, I wouldn't base your entire career off duty stations. (But some people do!)

To your other point, dating in flight school won't be impossible, but you'll be hard pressed like any SNA to balance studying, prepping, and flying with having a fulfilling social life. You and your peers are 20-somethings that are in demanding program, living in rural-ish locations along the gulf coast. Workload will be somewhere between a graduate program and medical school. If you're doing it right, you should be busy. House parties or weekend nights out with peers/roommates/study friends are the lowest common denominator.

 

[Brett327]

Second (one current XO as well), but the guy I’m assuming you’re referring to is a great American and it’s well deserved.

Now that I think about it... yes. Second.

 

[Brett327]

If anything, it will be beneficial for you due to the ''diversity'' aspect that will come in play when placing you in leadership positions or applying for advanced schools. Believe it or not, but it's true.

Disagree. Can you point to the policy or instruction or selection board precept that places any member of a group (LGTBQ or otherwise) at the head of the line for leadership positions or "advanced schools?"

 

[FinkUFreaky]

That definitely seems to be the consensus here and I appreciate all the input.

Obviously since I haven't commissioned yet, I don't know, but I would think that most gay people serving don't expect special treatment. At least for me, special treatment is the exact opposite of what I want. I just want my sexuality to be something people don't think twice about, not in a good way nor in a bad way. It's an important part of me, but it's not something that defines me.

When we talk about personal vs. professional life, the impression I get is that those are kind of intertwined particularly during flight school because as @SynixMan said, your peers are your community. I guess that's why I wanted to post about this topic because I'd still like to have a comfortable personal life and be able to grow socially (meet people, date, etc.) while I study to hopefully earn the title of Naval Aviator.

One of the dudes in my airwing, circa 2015ish, was thought act gay, because of certain mannerisms or actions (I honestly don’t know the full story), hadn’t come out, had the callsign “gobbler”. They immediately changed his callsign (if I remember correctly) when he came out (while on cruise). Nobody gave an F that he was gay, the wardroom rightly supported him. He did his job.

You will hear jokes that maybe rub you the wrong way sometimes, I have to admit that as much as I’ve tried, “that’s gay” was something a lot of people (myself included, although I think I’ve removed it mostly from my lexicon) wove into their vernacular when they were children. Just like “that’s retarded”. Doesn’t mean I dislike gay or retarded people in any way. Someday (maybe even today) “that’s so Cis-male” will be the insult ??. Someone is doing their job, don’t care what they’re doing in their free time. I’ve even learned personally as a simulator instructor to be less assuming, and instead of asking if they had a wife, if they had a partner or roommate (when inquiring why a specific student’s study habits were so bad; I personally always used my gf in flight school to quiz me on boldface etc).

I’ve seen several openly gay students come through the VT I’m a sim instructor at, and was a flight instructor at, haven’t heard or seen any negative treatment of them, or negative talk of them because of their sexuality. It’s 2023 bro.

Now if you demand your IP to refer to you as Xim/Xer, while that’s the new thing, I can’t promise a favorable response? I highly doubt anyone would fail you or grade you worse as a result, it would be the entitlement that they would have a problem with. We’re military. I’m not poking fun at trans folks, I know there are some. I’m just saying that none of us instructors talk to each other about the sexuality of our students (I haven’t seen any). Requesting special pronouns might cause a conversation?