How to take the next 6 years off, a.k.a, my transfer to the Air Force

[MIDNJAC]

Yeah I think squadrons are normally pretty good about adhering to the scheduling limits. Sometimes you get "bookended" but it is legal.

 

[insanebikerboy]

The few times it happened, I was unaware until later (crazy long debriefs, which was addressed), or it was individual decision-making (studying late, working out at weird times, etc.)

Since it's germane, crew rest is only violated by official duty taskings/interruptions. So, your example of a crazy long debrief that affects the crew rest for the next day's mission would be a violation of crew rest. Conversely, if a dude chose to use his crew rest time to work out, that's on him and not a violation of crew rest.

That holds true for both the Navy and the Air Force.

 

[Pags]

Since it's germane, crew rest is only violated by official duty taskings/interruptions. So, your example of a crazy long debrief that affects the crew rest for the next day's mission would be a violation of crew rest. Conversely, if a dude chose to use his crew rest time to work out, that's on him and not a violation of crew rest.

That holds true for both the Navy and the Air Force.

Good distinction. Squadron gives you the opportunity for X hours of uninterrupted rest and it's up to you as a professional to use those hours appropriately and get sleep and not stay up all night playing videogames or some such. If stuff happens outside of your control such as a sick kid up all night, gun shoots in the catwalk outside your stateroom, the incessant hooting of owls, etc then that's an ORM discussion (is IMSAFE still a thing?).

 

[MIDNJAC]

^ Yep

 

[Gatordev]

I think an important distinction here is being scheduled to break crew rest and actually doing it. I mentioned that I had seen the scheduling happen, but it was up to the individual to come back at 2am, look at the schedule, look at the SDO, and then say, "Ops is a retard," and then adjust the schedule. I've seen that happen all the time too, and that's a good thing.

 

[jmcquate]

I know I'm asking from ignorance, but could the disparity with crew rest between the AF and Navy have anything to do with the different manpower configurations between an AF and Navy squadron?

 

[whitesoxnation]

I know I'm asking from ignorance, but could the disparity with crew rest between the AF and Navy have anything to do with the different manpower configurations between an AF and Navy squadron?

I was going to mention earlier that collateral duty requirements/responsibility differences can lead to them.

Example - every commander is going to have CCIRs with associated timelines for getting the information reported. The need for approval by a decision maker before the reporting of a CCIR leaves the squadron forces you to choose between violating someone’s crew rest, get shot in face for not meeting the timeline, or having info leave the squadron that isn’t vetted/crafted to be the right message and then having to deal with fallout. This stuff usually comes up at night as well.

The timelines are sometimes unreasonable and the CCIRs may not be truly critical or are sometimes poorly defined. I doubt a USAF flying squadron CO has to deal with stuff like that.

 

[magnetfreezer]

I was going to mention earlier that collateral duty requirements/responsibility differences can lead to them.

Example - every commander is going to have CCIRs with associated timelines for getting the information reported. The need for approval by a decision maker before the reporting of a CCIR leaves the squadron forces you to choose between violating someone’s crew rest, get shot in face for not meeting the timeline, or having info leave the squadron that isn’t vetted/crafted to be the right message and then having to deal with fallout. This stuff usually comes up at night as well.

The timelines are sometimes unreasonable and the CCIRs may not be truly critical or are sometimes poorly defined. I doubt a USAF flying squadron CO has to deal with stuff like that.

AF flying squadrons generally ensure the CO and DO (XO) are not both flying / in crew rest at the same time in case of leadership questions, etc. For flying ops, there's an ops sup (CDO equivalent) scheduled and generally a duty ops group commander / deputy (commodore equivalent) who has the hammer for O-6 type waivers/decisions. For your flying type reporting, they'll have that responsibility, and don't have crew rest issues if they're scheduled for the ground job. If there's a CCIR specific to a person (arrest, personnel, etc.) whatever caused the CCIR is probably bad enough to ORM them off the schedule anyway, so they'll be pulled to deal with that.

 

[JollyGood]

AF flying squadrons generally ensure the CO and DO (XO) are not both flying / in crew rest at the same time in case of leadership questions, etc. For flying ops, there's an ops sup (CDO equivalent) scheduled and generally a duty ops group commander / deputy (commodore equivalent) who has the hammer for O-6 type waivers/decisions. For your flying type reporting, they'll have that responsibility, and don't have crew rest issues if they're scheduled for the ground job. If there's a CCIR specific to a person (arrest, personnel, etc.) whatever caused the CCIR is probably bad enough to ORM them off the schedule anyway, so they'll be pulled to deal with that.

Every single seat Rhino dude/dudette on here just had their brain explode.

 

[insanebikerboy]

AF flying squadrons generally ensure the CO and DO (XO) are not both flying / in crew rest at the same time in case of leadership questions, etc. For flying ops, there's an ops sup (CDO equivalent) scheduled and generally a duty ops group commander / deputy (commodore equivalent) who has the hammer for O-6 type waivers/decisions. For your flying type reporting, they'll have that responsibility, and don't have crew rest issues if they're scheduled for the ground job. If there's a CCIR specific to a person (arrest, personnel, etc.) whatever caused the CCIR is probably bad enough to ORM them off the schedule anyway, so they'll be pulled to deal with that.

Your description is more apt to a pointy nose squadron. Leadership in the tanker world doesn’t tend to fly much so they are typically always around.

 

[ChuckMK23]

Nice story about former P-3 /VP type who transferred to NY Air Guard and now is the ATAG and flying LC-130'S. A former HC-6 squadron mate flew in that unit as well and retired as an O-5.... Very cool mission

How New York Air National Guard chief went from P-3s to Skibirds

As the first woman to command the USA's largest Air National Guard unit, Brigadier General Denise Donnell wants to use her position to inspire anyone to follow their aviation dream

www.flightglobal.com

 

[Swanee]

Nice story about former P-3 /VP type who transferred to NY Air Guard and now is the ATAG and flying LC-130'S. A former HC-6 squadron mate flew in that unit as well and retired as an O-5.... Very cool mission

How New York Air National Guard chief went from P-3s to Skibirds

As the first woman to command the USA's largest Air National Guard unit, Brigadier General Denise Donnell wants to use her position to inspire anyone to follow their aviation dream

www.flightglobal.com

The Niagra unit is a top tier unit that is really good at everything they do.