SOAR

[Flash]

Then you promote the redesigned C-130 with hull?

If we're going to throw money at the problem along with making AS-3C's, why not?

 

[Flash]

That's a cool airplane. It has a separate engine just for blowing air over the flaps and tail for STOL, and operates in up to 3 meter seas. Fly by wire, with some mode for landing in those big seas using DLC.

Very cool, though very expensive and pretty rare with them making only about 1 a year max. Still a much more sensible solution to this 'problem' than almost anything else, and the Japanese would likely be more than happy to see us buy some.

 

[Pags]

There is already an excellent option already in service for that very mission, and one that has proven it can operate in the open ocean.

View attachment 32728

It's very expensive but likely a lot less than some C-130's on floats is going to end up costing us.



You are conflating the objection to one idea with a reluctance to new ideas period? I am all for fresh, new ideas that make sense and have a mission in mind but don't like ones that seem to originate from the 'bright idea fairy' without a lot of realism or actual mission to them. That is where I put the SC-130, which doesn't seem to fit into a realistic scenario in the Pacific.

Or we could buy some flying boats from the Chinese via a front company. Multiple levels of turnabout just make the ploy even more enjoyable.

Apparently, they are about as rare as humor in this thread. Larger point, to the extent sea state is an issue, it always has been, just as icing and visibility remains for our more advanced aircraft today. It is simply a limitation. We accommodate limitations and work around them as necessary. Some days sea state will be an issue, just like icing is when operating any aircraft.

I agree, I just think that the seaplane's operational envelope will be much smaller than land based equivalents due to the fact that they'll be limited by icing and vis and then sea state. So just another factor that will contribute to a seaplane flying less than it's land based equivalent. And at some point operational commanders will get fed up with the fact that the seaplanes aren't flying as much as the other aircraft.

 

[jmcquate]

Well we had one that served until the early 70s. So I'm guessing the operational limitations are well known.

 

[HSMPBR]

How did this thread turn into the PBY Catalina Whine Mixer?

 

[Griz882]

There is already an excellent option already in service for that very mission, and one that has proven it can operate in the open ocean.

View attachment 32728

It's very expensive but likely a lot less than some C-130's on floats is going to end up costing us.



You are conflating the objection to one idea with a reluctance to new ideas period? I am all for fresh, new ideas that make sense and have a mission in mind but don't like ones that seem to originate from the 'bright idea fairy' without a lot of realism or actual mission to them. That is where I put the SC-130, which doesn't seem to fit into a realistic scenario in the Pacific.

First off, cool airplane. Second, to quote myself…

To be clear I am not saying the floaty C-130 is the be all and end all of open ocean aviation, but it is a concpetual step in the right direction and my whole point is that it should have been a navy step.

 

[Griz882]

How did this thread turn into the PBY Catalina Whine Mixer?

I blame AFSOC and their terrific model builder.

 

[Jim123]

How did this thread turn into the PBY Catalina Whine Mixer?

Something to do with Canso culture.

 

[NoMoreMrNiceGuy]

How did this thread turn into the PBY Catalina Whine Mixer?

Did somebody say PBY Catalina Wine Mixer?!

Sweet Dreams and Nightmares > Vintage Wings of Canada

 

[ChuckMK23]

So Chuck, to help you understand where the Navy places its importance for Navy rotary the following things have happened in the last 3-5 years: SEAL Sniper support, SOF ISR support, a myriad of interesting ESM information collected in noted hotspots that gets passed to people well above the DoN level, almost daily armed intercepts of UAS. And that's just one AOR (well, probably two, technically), and only on the UNCLASS level.

I very much believe we've been successful in these mission areas - but where the hell are the stories - the citations for airmanship, leadership, and valor. The AF does a tremendous job of publishing citations and airmanship/leadership/valor decorations - even doing unclas summaries to news media. But also the story telling creates the heritage and culture for the generations of pilots and crew that follow within the respective communities. Even when I was a nugget Navy Helos had a culture of "aww shucks" humility - which is does not serve the community well. The AF gets it - especially driving culture, and funding and capability.

Other than LTJG Clyde Lassen - who in the Navy Helo community/heritage can we point to?

 

[GroundPounder]

I very much believe we've been successful in these mission areas - but where the hell are the stories - the citations for airmanship, leadership, and valor. The AF does a tremendous job of publishing citations and airmanship/leadership/valor decorations - even doing unclas summaries to news media. But also the story telling creates the heritage and culture for the generations of pilots and crew that follow within the respective communities. Even when I was a nugget Navy Helos had a culture of "aww shucks" humility - which is does not serve the community well. The AF gets it - especially driving culture, and funding and capability.

Other than LTJG Clyde Lassen - who in the Navy Helo community/heritage can we point to?

Chief (NAP) Duane Thorin?, who was later commissioned and retired Lieutenant Thorin.

 

[Griz882]

View attachment 32731
Chief (NAP) Duane Thorin?, who was later commissioned and retired Lieutenant Thorin.

Thorin’s helicopter was flown by an army officer! Error in fact on my part! The army guy I mention was a passenger.

 

[Gatordev]

I very much believe we've been successful in these mission areas - but where the hell are the stories -

If you're asking those questions, then it's clear that you don't understand what some of those missions actually are. That said, you can look up some of those missions in the media.

If you would like other examples of "look at me doing stuff," take a look at the news media in the summer of 2005. Or January of 2010. The Navy was quite busy doing some cool things there and it's well documented.

 

[Griz882]

If you're asking those questions, then it's clear that you don't understand what some of those missions actually are.

I get want you mean, and you are on target, but in a time when it seams like every navy special operations type gets a book contract with his trident not “understanding” the mission is kind of funny. Maybe navy helicopter pilots can’t write? ?

 

[Pags]

If you're asking those questions, then it's clear that you don't understand what some of those missions actually are. That said, you can look up some of those missions in the media.

If you would like other examples of "look at me doing stuff," take a look at the news media in the summer of 2005. Or January of 2010. The Navy was quite busy doing some cool things there and it's well documented.

But were navy folks wearing HGU-84s in those stories? Because Chuck doesn't want anything to do with stories about USN helos unless the crew has on HGU-56s and/or a seat pan survival rifle or is getting a valor award.