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My Overall Primary Experience

insanebikerboy

Internet killed the television star
pilot
None
Contributor
MIF monsters (as the term is defined in this thread) are definitely a thing. Certainly the exception, but a few in the cadre do exist. And it is unfortunate for the students.

I saw the flip side, Santa Clauses that gave all 5s on some XC weekends and absolutely killed the NSS for following classes.
 

Python

Well-Known Member
pilot
Contributor
I saw the flip side, Santa Clauses that gave all 5s on some XC weekends and absolutely killed the NSS for following classes.

Yup. I don’t deny that exists either. Not a zero sum game. Just answering the question that yes, MIF monsters do exist and aren’t that rare.
 

Gatordev

Well-Known Member
pilot
Site Admin
Contributor
I saw the flip side, Santa Clauses that gave all 5s on some XC weekends and absolutely killed the NSS for following classes.

Often (but certainly not all) these IPs also want to go party on the road every weekend, as well. Word gets out and students are always asking them to take them. See also: Barely doing more than 3 items on the grade card.

I suppose there's an economics lesson in there, somewhere.
 

PMPT

Well-Known Member
In fact his nickname was “Grail” as in he shot down a lot of budding aviators.
i suspect this reference will be lost on primary dudes. but i got a chuckle out of it, now that i have any idea what that is haha
 

PMPT

Well-Known Member
For all the lurking SNAs, if you genuinely think you or someone else is being treated unfairly, talk to the Stan Officer. It's fairly easy to put an objective set of eyes/ears on an SNA and see if they're meeting the standard.

I was in Corpus and had to do this. I went from being a bottom of the barrel student C4101-4104 (receiving straight MIF in fams, which means almost all 2s) to finishing with a nearly 70NSS once it was discovered that i was not, in fact, a total fuckwit (granted, a partial one sometimes, and still am).
 

Pcoola19

Member
Disclaimer: I’m writing this because I know there are many people here who are looking for honest feedback of what Primary is really like. I remember scrolling through Reddit and Airwarriors a few years ago, trying to find any personal experiences on flight school. I hope this post finds you well.

I first came to Corpus Christi in June, classed up in November, and finally finished in July. I’ll be honest, I hated almost every bit of Primary. The unpredictable flight schedule (not to mention the weather), certain sim instructors/IPs, and the constant stress of being able to regurgitate information at will that needs to be verbatim/memorized, made it very unenjoyable and stressful. All of this is certainly understandable given the nature of the job, but preparing for briefs, getting grilled in the plane, and occasionally getting chewed out for making mistakes, wears down on you and makes you perpetually question whether or not you want to be there (especially in the Contacts Stage). Unexpectedly, the fear of failure was my main motivator that drove me through Primary, rather than the enjoyment of flying itself. I’ve wanted to be in military aviation my whole life. Yet, the constant suck I endured everyday during Primary is certainly not what I pictured when submitting my OCS package two years ago.
Living by myself certainly did not help. Although there were a few friends from NIFE and OCS that came over to Corpus at around the same time as me, it still felt like I was moving to a new city alone. There were many times where I would feel lonely and go days and days without seeing anybody, for reasons like not getting scheduled, COVID, or having that constant, sinking feeling that I should be studying something.

My FAM block was one of the worst experiences of flying I’ve ever had. My onwing was notorious for being a huge dick (and a yeller) in the plane, and he certainly lived up to his reputation. The combination of my onwing constantly grilling me, being passively airsick in the FAM block, and not expecting the fast pace, T-6 flying for the first time made me seriously question whether or not flying in the military was for me. However, it did get better. I got desensitized to my Onwing’s cancer as fuck attitude and just got better at flying. For me, going offwing for the first time was an odd experience, especially when hearing my first offwing IP’s soothing, reassuring voice over the ICS, which is something that came as a shock to me at first. Although I had to eventually go back to my onwing for four more flights after going offwing (really six for weather), I quickly understood that the experiences I’ve had with my onwing is not the norm of Primary and that all IPs are different regarding their expectations, behavior, and tolerance, and this understanding gave me more perseverance and confidence to power through Primary. I took the situation for what it was and used it to better myself. He made it so that flying with any other IP would not be as bad and actually prepared me to be more ahead of the plane in terms of radios, altitude/heading/airspeed corrections, etc. Despite all the yellings and the day-to-day depression I endured during Contacts, I actually ended up warming up to my Onwing and he became more of a mentor after my initial checkride.

PAs were fun and too short (4 flights and a checkride). Have fun with the IP you are assigned with and go to places with good food. Remember for your Aero Checkride, they are more concerned with how safe you are in the landing pattern rather than how well you do your aero maneuvers. With that said, be ready for some out-of-the-blue contact UA recoveries.

Instruments. I hated it when I started, and then ended up loving it halfway through. Couple days into ground school, you will naturally feel lost. However, after memorizing the procedures and applying them into the RIOT trainer that you can download from home, you will feel pretty confident going into the sims. With the exception of the discuss items, the Instruments stage was the easiest part of primary for me.
Formations. I finished forms in 5 days. My forms partner and I were scrambling/borderline-panicking to learn the Forms brief last minute and to chairfly the profile. Don’t be like us. Use the “days off” in instruments or in aero to learn the brief as soon as you can. 90% of the discussion items in forms are covered in the Forms brief, so learning the brief makes your life so much easier and allows you to focus your studies on other things. Our admin (comms, signals, etc.) didn't get cleaned up until the last day it mattered and our grades suffered for it.

If I have to give one advice in preparation for enduring Primary, it’s living with people, preferably with someone who is at or near the same stage of training you are in. Not only does it help to quiz each other on things and keep each other accountable, but it helps with your mental/social health as well as being able to occasionally decompress and confide in each other. I had two roommates back in NIFE (one stayed in Milton, the other attrited), and although NIFE was only about 8-9 weeks long, it was definitely more or less stressful at times, and it was nice to occasionally hang out and crack open a cold one with the boys. Primary already sucks, you don’t need to make it worse by going through it alone.
As far as advice for the actual syllabus of Primary, like most people who went through, I highly recommend knowing your EPs and Limits, cold. When I was in waiting pool, I only studied the EPs and Limits quiz thinking that it was enough. Little did I know that I was expected to know all the cleanup checklist items following the critical action items as well as ALL the Notes, Warnings, and Cautions verbatim, ALL of Section VI of NATOPS, and Post-Ejection procedures as well as Life Raft and Rescue Operations. Some of the NWCs may not make sense when first trying to memorize, but the understanding of this information will come as you progress through the early stages of Primary. I also suggest practicing your Hollywood Checklist over and over again, until you can run through the whole thing with no pauses or issues. You can go in the sim bay and practice the checklist in the static trainer, but really all you need is a cockpit poster that you can buy ahead of time from Office Depot to practice in front of. I was able to practice this all by myself, no problem. Don’t feel like you need to practice this with someone, but it helps to fill in the gaps of knowledge you may be missing. Additionally, I recommend memorizing your NATOPS brief at a minimum of a week before FAM 0. Not only does the brief need to be memorized verbatim, the IPs expect the brief to be fast. The last thing an IP wants to hear is you pausing occasionally to remember what to say in your NATOPS brief. Memorizing the brief requires absolutely no skill, and it sets the event off in a good tone if said fast and accurately, as well as a very strong understanding of the discussion items associated with the event.

Grades. If you want jet grades, you need to prof advance (at least in my squadron). My Onwing never prof advanced anyone, so I was hesitant to ask any of the IPs during Contacts. I slightly regret this decision, especially when I saw my final computed NSS at the end of Primary and going down the whole should’ve would’ve could’ve mindgame route. But at the end of the day, you get what you get on selection day and there’s nothing you can do besides embracing your newly assigned platform. I’m convinced that the platform I got would ultimately be more healthy and better for me in the long route. There really is no wrong answer for selection.

Lastly, take care of yourself. That is really what this post amounts to. Take care of yourself not only physically, but mentally. It’s easy to convince yourself that you don’t have time to workout when you have all this information that you need to study/memorize/chairfly. I gained about 15 pounds during the first half of Primary and was constantly ordering food. Halfway through Primary, I was able to stop my bad habits and go out of my way to eat more healthily and exercise regularly. This lifestyle change, while it may seem normal/habitual for most people in military aviation, improved my daily mood significantly and ultimately affected my performance in the cockpit. Take time on the weekends to enjoy your hobbies. Get out once in a while and do some things, whether it's going to the beach, golfing with friends, or taking a walk around the block. Although Corpus is probably the least attractive city I’ve been to, you can still make memories here and get the most out of what may be the most stressful time in your military career.
Winged now. Definitely resonate with most of your sentiments. Primary was the hardest time for me flight training wise. Corpus is a grinder. The sim instructors suck and dealing with an asshole onwing sucks more. I kind of disagree with those saying that your attitude had something to do with your experience, especially with your onwing. There are just assholes everywhere in the Navy, and it’s a shame you had to deal with one during your formative moments of your aviation training and ultimately 1 of the 3 blocks in primary that decide your NSS fate. The flight training experience isn’t fair and some people get the short end of the stick (happened to me too) but you learn to live with it and I wouldn’t change a thing in terms of the outcome. You’ll love whatever you fly/community you go to. Retrospectively, yes, living with people/having friends close to you in training is helpful and working out probably would help de stress a lot, but I also remember Primary feeling like I had no time to do anything else other than look forward to the next thing to study. Despite what others have said, I enjoyed Advanced/FRS much more. In both you’re treated much more like a professional. Contacts for Helos, if that’s where you’re going, is similar to primary contacts in learning curve since you’ve never flown a Helo, but it chills out after that.
 

Pcoola19

Member
Disclaimer: I’m writing this because I know there are many people here who are looking for honest feedback of what Primary is really like. I remember scrolling through Reddit and Airwarriors a few years ago, trying to find any personal experiences on flight school. I hope this post finds you well.

I first came to Corpus Christi in June, classed up in November, and finally finished in July. I’ll be honest, I hated almost every bit of Primary. The unpredictable flight schedule (not to mention the weather), certain sim instructors/IPs, and the constant stress of being able to regurgitate information at will that needs to be verbatim/memorized, made it very unenjoyable and stressful. All of this is certainly understandable given the nature of the job, but preparing for briefs, getting grilled in the plane, and occasionally getting chewed out for making mistakes, wears down on you and makes you perpetually question whether or not you want to be there (especially in the Contacts Stage). Unexpectedly, the fear of failure was my main motivator that drove me through Primary, rather than the enjoyment of flying itself. I’ve wanted to be in military aviation my whole life. Yet, the constant suck I endured everyday during Primary is certainly not what I pictured when submitting my OCS package two years ago.
Living by myself certainly did not help. Although there were a few friends from NIFE and OCS that came over to Corpus at around the same time as me, it still felt like I was moving to a new city alone. There were many times where I would feel lonely and go days and days without seeing anybody, for reasons like not getting scheduled, COVID, or having that constant, sinking feeling that I should be studying something.

My FAM block was one of the worst experiences of flying I’ve ever had. My onwing was notorious for being a huge dick (and a yeller) in the plane, and he certainly lived up to his reputation. The combination of my onwing constantly grilling me, being passively airsick in the FAM block, and not expecting the fast pace, T-6 flying for the first time made me seriously question whether or not flying in the military was for me. However, it did get better. I got desensitized to my Onwing’s cancer as fuck attitude and just got better at flying. For me, going offwing for the first time was an odd experience, especially when hearing my first offwing IP’s soothing, reassuring voice over the ICS, which is something that came as a shock to me at first. Although I had to eventually go back to my onwing for four more flights after going offwing (really six for weather), I quickly understood that the experiences I’ve had with my onwing is not the norm of Primary and that all IPs are different regarding their expectations, behavior, and tolerance, and this understanding gave me more perseverance and confidence to power through Primary. I took the situation for what it was and used it to better myself. He made it so that flying with any other IP would not be as bad and actually prepared me to be more ahead of the plane in terms of radios, altitude/heading/airspeed corrections, etc. Despite all the yellings and the day-to-day depression I endured during Contacts, I actually ended up warming up to my Onwing and he became more of a mentor after my initial checkride.

PAs were fun and too short (4 flights and a checkride). Have fun with the IP you are assigned with and go to places with good food. Remember for your Aero Checkride, they are more concerned with how safe you are in the landing pattern rather than how well you do your aero maneuvers. With that said, be ready for some out-of-the-blue contact UA recoveries.

Instruments. I hated it when I started, and then ended up loving it halfway through. Couple days into ground school, you will naturally feel lost. However, after memorizing the procedures and applying them into the RIOT trainer that you can download from home, you will feel pretty confident going into the sims. With the exception of the discuss items, the Instruments stage was the easiest part of primary for me.
Formations. I finished forms in 5 days. My forms partner and I were scrambling/borderline-panicking to learn the Forms brief last minute and to chairfly the profile. Don’t be like us. Use the “days off” in instruments or in aero to learn the brief as soon as you can. 90% of the discussion items in forms are covered in the Forms brief, so learning the brief makes your life so much easier and allows you to focus your studies on other things. Our admin (comms, signals, etc.) didn't get cleaned up until the last day it mattered and our grades suffered for it.

If I have to give one advice in preparation for enduring Primary, it’s living with people, preferably with someone who is at or near the same stage of training you are in. Not only does it help to quiz each other on things and keep each other accountable, but it helps with your mental/social health as well as being able to occasionally decompress and confide in each other. I had two roommates back in NIFE (one stayed in Milton, the other attrited), and although NIFE was only about 8-9 weeks long, it was definitely more or less stressful at times, and it was nice to occasionally hang out and crack open a cold one with the boys. Primary already sucks, you don’t need to make it worse by going through it alone.
As far as advice for the actual syllabus of Primary, like most people who went through, I highly recommend knowing your EPs and Limits, cold. When I was in waiting pool, I only studied the EPs and Limits quiz thinking that it was enough. Little did I know that I was expected to know all the cleanup checklist items following the critical action items as well as ALL the Notes, Warnings, and Cautions verbatim, ALL of Section VI of NATOPS, and Post-Ejection procedures as well as Life Raft and Rescue Operations. Some of the NWCs may not make sense when first trying to memorize, but the understanding of this information will come as you progress through the early stages of Primary. I also suggest practicing your Hollywood Checklist over and over again, until you can run through the whole thing with no pauses or issues. You can go in the sim bay and practice the checklist in the static trainer, but really all you need is a cockpit poster that you can buy ahead of time from Office Depot to practice in front of. I was able to practice this all by myself, no problem. Don’t feel like you need to practice this with someone, but it helps to fill in the gaps of knowledge you may be missing. Additionally, I recommend memorizing your NATOPS brief at a minimum of a week before FAM 0. Not only does the brief need to be memorized verbatim, the IPs expect the brief to be fast. The last thing an IP wants to hear is you pausing occasionally to remember what to say in your NATOPS brief. Memorizing the brief requires absolutely no skill, and it sets the event off in a good tone if said fast and accurately, as well as a very strong understanding of the discussion items associated with the event.

Grades. If you want jet grades, you need to prof advance (at least in my squadron). My Onwing never prof advanced anyone, so I was hesitant to ask any of the IPs during Contacts. I slightly regret this decision, especially when I saw my final computed NSS at the end of Primary and going down the whole should’ve would’ve could’ve mindgame route. But at the end of the day, you get what you get on selection day and there’s nothing you can do besides embracing your newly assigned platform. I’m convinced that the platform I got would ultimately be more healthy and better for me in the long route. There really is no wrong answer for selection.

Lastly, take care of yourself. That is really what this post amounts to. Take care of yourself not only physically, but mentally. It’s easy to convince yourself that you don’t have time to workout when you have all this information that you need to study/memorize/chairfly. I gained about 15 pounds during the first half of Primary and was constantly ordering food. Halfway through Primary, I was able to stop my bad habits and go out of my way to eat more healthily and exercise regularly. This lifestyle change, while it may seem normal/habitual for most people in military aviation, improved my daily mood significantly and ultimately affected my performance in the cockpit. Take time on the weekends to enjoy your hobbies. Get out once in a while and do some things, whether it's going to the beach, golfing with friends, or taking a walk around the block. Although Corpus is probably the least attractive city I’ve been to, you can still make memories here and get the most out of what may be the most stressful time in your military career.
Also reading some other comments, I’ll add some more insight. Yes, the studying/preparation never stops. But you get used to it. Your third time around learning about a new T/M/S will be the same as with the T-6: systems/EPs/limits/SOP, but you’ll have done it before and will know how to learn it. And IMO, being treated more like a professional and not being expected to know EVERYTHING about a TEMPORARY aircraft, as you are in primary, there’s no comparison what the better situation is.
 

PMPT

Well-Known Member
I would love to know which squadron OP was in ... and if the onwing in question was a former cobra guy

I'll throw my $0.02 in. Corpus doesn't suck that bad. There's a fairly decent number of good restaurants in town and at least a handful of legitimately pretty cool bars to hang out in. The beach is nowhere near as nice as pensacola, but hey ... it's still the ocean and the beach.

I lived with 2 other T-6 students and although we occasionally bounced things off each other, honestly, I ended up doing the vast majority of my studying with guys from my ground school class with whom I did not live. Living with people can be a good idea, especially if you are going to live with friends, but by no means would I say it is in any way necessary to being a good student or getting decent marks in the plane. You can just as easily study with friends off-base at a coffee shop as you can at home. That's how it worked for me anyways. I also lived alone during I-Jet/Advanced and, althoug I lived in an apartment building chock full of SNAs, likewise just ended up doing alot of study alone or with people I was at the same point in the syllabus with. The vast majority of your learning is going to be individual in any case ... you can't phone a friend when you're given the turn to final for the ILS at KCRP and have to do your little ILS/Localizer checklist or whatever. Biggest thing you can do to help yourself is be an absolute slut for the OFTs/UTDs and get in with a friend as often as possible and practice, practice, practice. There is simply no substitute for manipulating switches, navigating, and talking while flying while simulating being on the move in 3 dimensions.

Otherwise, just have fun man. Is T6 training stressful? Yes, I recognize it very much can be, especially when your ops department is trying to double pump you 6 days a week to get you finished as fast as humanly possible. That shit fucking sucks, but take some brief solace in knowing that we've all been there and while I hate the seemingly binary pace of naval aviation training (its either glacial or breakneck), you're still getting paid to learn and do something pretty cool and fun. Take those brief few moments of more or less straight and level time when you're transiting to the K4MOA and look outside over your right shoulder and admire the bay and coastline below. You're doing a cool fucking job in a cool airplane that people would literally pay vast sums of money to get in, if they could.

Here's something else to remember: for those of you that didn't work prior to joining, although the money is better on the outside and although I do definitely miss my freedoms, most jobs in real life are pretty dull. Not all, but pluck the average college graduate out and they're probably doing something less viscerally exciting than becoming a pilot of a plane that says U.S. NAVY on the side of it (ok, to be fair, the T-6s might only say NAVY). Don't forget to have fun. A big part of the joy of this job (to me) is getting to work with interesting and cool people from all sorts of backgrounds. Give yourself an evening off a week (at least) and go out and crush some beers with the guys and girls.
 

Pcoola19

Member
Just re-read this, are you saying that people actually ask their IPs if they can prof advance? That seems…odd.
Agreed, especially in contacts. We had some people ask to be prof advanced in instruments but ended up not being able unless already instrument rated coming in.
 

Jim123

DD-214 in hand and I'm gonna party like it's 1998
pilot
Agreed, especially in contacts. We had some people ask to be prof advanced in instruments but ended up not being able unless already instrument rated coming in.
Oof! Asking to proficiency advance in instruments is basically asking for less practice flying instruments.

I get it, students don't want to hang out in primary when they could get to the fleet sooner (one of my standby jokes to my students was "you and me both want you get get done and get out of this squadron sooner rather than later"), but skipping free instrument practice is a terrible, terrible idea for a pilot trainee.


Sort of related rant: The T-6 would make a much better instrument training platform if the overpaid geniuses at Pax River and Wright-Patt would have included a hood for the rear cockpit. The T-34 had one and the T-2 had one. At least somebody got around to figuring out how to adapt foggles to a flight helmet, but that's not the same thing.
 

ChuckMK23

FERS and TSP contributor!
pilot
Oof! Asking to proficiency advance in instruments is basically asking for less practice flying instruments.

I get it, students don't want to hang out in primary when they could get to the fleet sooner (one of my standby jokes to my students was "you and me both want you get get done and get out of this squadron sooner rather than later"), but skipping free instrument practice is a terrible, terrible idea for a pilot trainee.


Sort of related rant: The T-6 would make a much better instrument training platform if the overpaid geniuses at Pax River and Wright-Patt would have included a hood for the rear cockpit. The T-34 had one and the T-2 had one. At least somebody got around to figuring out how to adapt foggles to a flight helmet, but that's not the same thing.
The T-6 does not have a canopy drape/hood for the rear seat? guessing it has something to do with the seat. So what kind of view limiting device is used for simulated instrument flight?
 

Pcoola19

Member
Oof! Asking to proficiency advance in instruments is basically asking for less practice flying instruments.

I get it, students don't want to hang out in primary when they could get to the fleet sooner (one of my standby jokes to my students was "you and me both want you get get done and get out of this squadron sooner rather than later"), but skipping free instrument practice is a terrible, terrible idea for a pilot trainee.


Sort of related rant: The T-6 would make a much better instrument training platform if the overpaid geniuses at Pax River and Wright-Patt would have included a hood for the rear cockpit. The T-34 had one and the T-2 had one. At least somebody got around to figuring out how to adapt foggles to a flight helmet, but that's not the same thing.
So the big thing with people prof advancing is it gives them less graded items/events in the stage. Basically if someone is exceeding the standard, and they really want those jets, prof advancing is the way to definitely up the chances. I agree, it’s pretty stupid to give up valuable and FREE flight training, but it’s pretty much the fault of the design of Primary. Anyone coming in with outside ratings/licenses will typically be prof advanced (especially instrument rated folks) and it skews the whole NSS balance.
 
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