Sen. Schumer gas for electric car trade in program?

[AllAmerican75]

We do those things already in the smaller countries. Literally USAID and BHA do that on a regular basis.

further- what’s wrong with sustainability and reducing carbon emissions. It doesn’t have to be political.

I can see that it reducing my waste, recycling, and not being wasteful has a net positive impact on the earth. Why exactly is that a political statement and wrong?

I'll make this as clear as possible. If you can't actually read and comprehend what I'm saying then I'm done engaging.

1. There is no clear, irrefutable evidence that humans are responsible for climate change.
2. There is no clear, irrefutable evidence that reducing carbon emissions will actually stop/slow climate change.
3. The science is not "settled." In fact, it's in its infancy.
4. Until we can solve problems 1-3 above, then there are better places to spend the money that have direct, measurable, impacts on the wellbeing of the environment, our population, and the world as a whole such as clean air, clean water, and reduction of encroachment on native animal habitats.

So what's the answer to both issues?

the EPA in the 1970s was pretty successful.

I grew up next to Onondaga Lake, and Allied chemical completely fucked the entire ecosystem of that place up. Should we go back to that? I don't care that Allied employed 1000 workers and brought money into the local economy; in a couple of decades they completely ruined Onondaga lake for generations to come (centuries if they don't clean it up). I kind of like the idea of having safe and clean places to swim, and sail, and windsurf.


The smog over LA and Phoenix is pretty bad. Do we let that become a normal thing over every big city?

Agreed, why are we wasting time on carbon reduction when we could get more bang for our buck with spending on clean air and clean water initiatives. My aunt works at the EPA in both offices and has seen her funding slashed repeatedly by both parties over the years because they keep chasing carbon footprint and carbon exchanges.

Are you really claiming the state department and other significant gov't agencies are just parroting from a PowerPoint slide?

Are you really implying diplomatically accredited FSOs from DOS and USAID as well as the SDO/DATT are just parroting something from slides???

how exactly do you think national security and national interests are advanced?

We see it all the time in the DoD, why wouldn't it happen in other agencies? This is literally an appeal to authority and that's a logical fallacy. From my personal experience working with DoS and USAID, yes, they are guilty of groupthink and focusing more on pretty powerpoints than actual facts just like the rest of the government.

 

[SELRES_AMDO]

Wow. It is really concerning to me that we have military Officers who think the state department just parrots power point slides to formulate their strategy.

 

[nodropinufaka]

Wow. It is really concerning to me that we have military Officers who think the state department just parrots power point slides to formulate their strategy.

well it’s clearly a very political thing more then anything else.

 

[nodropinufaka]

Wow. It is really concerning to me that we have military Officers who think the state department just parrots power point slides to formulate their strategy.

Government doesn't focus on facts and is guilty of group think but then proceeds to spend a career in the government

 

[wink]

But it does belong in the discussions of climate because our diplomats and representatives of United States interests abroad are discussing it with those PINs.

I am not sure how familiar you are with Security Cooperation and ODHACA funding but the United States can’t just hand out money like you’re suggesting.

Also this is a good time to recommend anyone who is in a COCOM staff position or about to be to sign up for the Security Cooperation Course with JSOU. Great course and you will learn a lot.

My point is that just because State is discussing climate with PINs does not mean there is any linkage to climate and the influence China has over those countries. I am also not saying the US has the money or should spend it if they did, on those Island governments. Again, the point is that if China has influence it is because they have spent money in those places. Full stop!. State may be trying to blunt Chinese influence without dropping the cash, but that does not mean climate leadership is the issue. Money is the issue. The Chinese buy influence. IF we spent like China, the PINs would turn away from China.

 

[nodropinufaka]

My point is that just because State is discussing climate with PINs does not mean there is any linkage to climate and the influence China has over those countries. I am also not saying the US has the money or should spend it if they did, on those Island governments. Again, the point is that if China has influence it is because they have spent money in those places. Full stop!. State may be trying to blunt Chinese influence without dropping the cash, but that does not mean climate leadership is the issue. Money is the issue. The Chinese buy influence. IF we spent like China, the PINs would turn away from China.

But I am telling you that the State Dep has research both contracted and internal about the results of climate change in PINs.

The research is that there is a direct linkage to climate change in PINs.

It isn't just a ppt slide that State made up its an actual researched document with peer reviewed data sets.

 

[SELRES_AMDO]

I'm interested in hearing everyone's thoughts.

Is climate change real?

Is climate change caused by man?

I acknowledge it is real. I'm not certain that it is caused by man. That being said, I'm an avid surfer, dirt bike rider, offroader, and outdoorsman and do my part to minimize my environmental impacts.

 

[wink]

But I am telling you that the State Dep has research both contracted and internal about the results of climate change in PINs.

The research is that there is a direct linkage to climate change in PINs.

It isn't just a ppt slide that State made up its an actual researched document with peer reviewed data sets.

I wasn't debating whether climate change is affecting PINs. Just that China's influence was not due to Chinese overtures to the PINs regarding climate change. It is MONEY!!!! How can it be climate change when China is not doing their part by a long shot. But now that you mention climate change and disappearing island nations, the seas have been rising for many decades, some say a 100 years or more. As a bright eyed fuzzy balled youth I saw a documentary about some islanders being displaced due to rising sea levels. And that was a long time ago . Similarly, glaciers have been receding almost since they were formed. Is global warming...oh, I mean climate change, hastening their retreat? Dunno. But with China and other industrialized second and third world counties doing nothing about CO2, US reductions will do noting to change it.

 

[Treetop Flyer]

But I am telling you that the State Dep has research both contracted and internal about the results of climate change in PINs.

The research is that there is a direct linkage to climate change in PINs.

It isn't just a ppt slide that State made up its an actual researched document with peer reviewed data sets.

“There is a direct linkage to climate change in PINs”

What is that supposed to mean? Does that make sense to you?

 

[nodropinufaka]

I wasn't debating whether climate change is affecting PINs. Just that China's influence was not due to Chinese overtures to the PINs regarding climate change. It is MONEY!!!! How can it be climate change when China is not doing their part by a long shot. But now that you mention climate change and disappearing island nations, the seas have been rising for many decades, some say a 100 years or more. As a bright eyed fuzzy balled youth I saw a documentary about some islanders being displaced due to rising sea levels. And that was a long time ago . Similarly, glaciers have been receding almost since they were formed. Is global warming...oh, I mean climate change, hastening their retreat? Dunno. But with China and other industrialized second and third world counties doing nothing about CO2, US reductions will do noting to change it.

So we been on the same page the whole time re China.

Of course China isn't doing their part. They are good at telling everyone they are and signaling it to these vulnerable nations.

 

[nodropinufaka]

“There is a direct linkage to climate change in PINs”

What is that supposed to mean? Does that make sense to you?

Does it not?

There is research done that shows the climate is changing due to the data sets they studied.

 

[Treetop Flyer]

Does it not?

There is research done that shows the climate is changing due to the data sets they studied.

Neat. I had eggs for breakfast.

 

[SELRES_AMDO]

Neat. I had eggs for breakfast.

So is climate change not real?

 

[Treetop Flyer]

So is climate change not real?

It’s not threatening our national security

 

[nodropinufaka]

It’s not threatening our national security

Interesting approach.

I take it you don't believe climate change is real by the way you answered the question.