Consequences for Veterans and/or retirees in the 2021 DC Riots

[Treetop Flyer]

I know that Clay Travis isn't everyone's cup of tea, but he calls himself a First Amendment absolutist. I think this piece of his does a good job of lining up the arguments about why censorship like we've seen, such as Amazon, Apple, and Google, essentially eliminating Parler is such an unprecedented and scary thing in America. He also comments about the importance of embracing diversity of thought and ideas.

Why Big Tech Bannings Are Bad For America's Marketplace of Ideas

Long time readers of OutKick know that above everything else, I am a First Amendment absolutist. I believe the First Amendment is our most sacred right,

www.outkick.com

Add the German chancellor and French foreign minister to the list speaking out against big tech censorship.

 

[SlickAg]

I do NOT think that censorship has been applied in a "fair" or equitable manner. But what are people to do about it? Lawsuits which have had varying levels of success? Short of passing legislation or changing what already exists, what legal recourse is there other than that? The way I read it.....businesses are there to make money. Whether folks like it or not, certain businesses have determined that various matters/people take away from their money, and they posted the no longer welcome sign.

To be fair, I have never visited twitter or really much in the way of the social media app world.....and I feel just fine. So maybe I just don't "get" them

This is about way more than making money.

"German Chancellor Angela Merkel objected to the decisions, saying on Monday that lawmakers should set the rules governing free speech and not private technology companies. “The chancellor sees the complete closing down of the account of an elected president as problematic,” Steffen Seibert, her chief spokesman, said at a regular news conference in Berlin. Rights like the freedom of speech “can be interfered with, but by law and within the framework defined by the legislature -- not according to a corporate decision.”

The German leader’s stance is echoed by the French government. Junior Minister for European Union Affairs Clement Beaune said he was “shocked” to see a private company make such an important decision. “This should be decided by citizens, not by a CEO,” he told Bloomberg TV on Monday. “There needs to be public regulation of big online platforms.” Finance Minister Bruno Le Maire earlier said that the state should be responsible for regulations, rather than “the digital oligarchy,” and called big tech “one of the threats” to democracy."

Germany and France Oppose Trump’s Twitter Exile

Germany and France attacked Twitter Inc. and Facebook Inc. after U.S. President Donald Trump was shut off from the social media platforms, in an extension of Europe’s battle with big tech.

www.bloomberg.com

 

[Brett327]

Let's assume that this all blows over and as Griz said, we're just back to drinking coffee in the morning and seeing how our Bitcoin did overnight. I think two of the biggest, and super fascinating, storylines going forward are 1) how does the GOP move forward given the internal strife between the MAGA crowd and those who the MAGA crowd would call RINOs and 2) battle for control and relevance in the Democratic Party between the old guard (Pelosi, Schumer, et al) and The Squad. I think they'll both be critical, and I personally hope that the latter's socialist agenda gets stymied. But I think The Squad is going to push and push and push until the boundaries of legislative norms and mores are expanded upon.

Mr. Biden has two options: middle ground and steady the ship as it were, or be a progressive. I've seen lots of things that made me think he's very open to the latter.

I hope you're right, but I think the discussion is going to come up sooner rather than later.

Agreed for the most part. My take: Biden is a centrist. He'll govern to the right of Obama on some issues, but mostly a mainstream Democrat. The left wing of the party do not have nearly the power that is ascribed to them. They're held up as scary libs because they're a bright shiny object... and AOC squawks a lot, but ultimately doesn't move the needle on what the Congress as a whole can get passed. Moreover, as I suggested before, the Dems are going to need 60 votes in the Senate to pass anything. That's not exactly fertile ground for ramming through a hard left agenda.

People would be well served to stop catastrophizing (yes both sides). Even after everything this government (and country) have gone through in the last few years, every outlandish proposal coming out of The Squad doesn't mean it's going to come to pass and cause the planet to explode. This is how we get to a place where otherwise intelligent people believe Democrats are running a child sex ring in the non-existent basement of a DC pizza joint.

 

[FrankTheTank]

Really need to put them into context with his prior tweets. They weren’t in isolation.

The last one in particular, combined with all of the ongoing right wing extremist on-line traffic, can easily be read as, “So feel free to destroy the inauguration.”

Some entrepreneur can feel free to spin up their own services.

Bullshit... Better watch your words carefully. Hopefully, your students don’t get the wrong idea of the context of your lectures.... As Biden would say Come on man... Your reaching for a context that you want because Orange Man bad....

 

[Ghost SWO]

Google and Apple control 99% of the app market.

Not only did Google and Apple remove Parler from their app stores, Amazon Web Services which is the web host for Parler has removed the website completely and no one can access Parler through the website now...

We're in unprecedented times. Where does it stop?

 

[BigRed389]

This is about way more than making money.

"German Chancellor Angela Merkel objected to the decisions, saying on Monday that lawmakers should set the rules governing free speech and not private technology companies. “The chancellor sees the complete closing down of the account of an elected president as problematic,” Steffen Seibert, her chief spokesman, said at a regular news conference in Berlin. Rights like the freedom of speech “can be interfered with, but by law and within the framework defined by the legislature -- not according to a corporate decision.”

The German leader’s stance is echoed by the French government. Junior Minister for European Union Affairs Clement Beaune said he was “shocked” to see a private company make such an important decision. “This should be decided by citizens, not by a CEO,” he told Bloomberg TV on Monday. “There needs to be public regulation of big online platforms.” Finance Minister Bruno Le Maire earlier said that the state should be responsible for regulations, rather than “the digital oligarchy,” and called big tech “one of the threats” to democracy."

Germany and France Oppose Trump’s Twitter Exile

Germany and France attacked Twitter Inc. and Facebook Inc. after U.S. President Donald Trump was shut off from the social media platforms, in an extension of Europe’s battle with big tech.

www.bloomberg.com

So you’re saying nanny state regulate everything European governments have a point about big government regulation of the private sector?

If this does nothing else, hopefully it convinced some of the die hards on both sides that neither part ideology has the right answer all the time, and that every case should be considered on its own merits. That would be quite a big step.
And I say that as someone who is usually against adding government interference.

 

[taxi1]

Bullshit... Better watch your words carefully. Hopefully, your students don’t get the wrong idea of the context of your lectures.... As Biden would say Come on man... Your reaching for a context that you want because Orange Man bad....

I’m actually not a fan of shutting him down, but to cite just those two tweets in isolation and not the history leading up to it is disengenuous. Like the previous 10 tweets were about the coronavirus response or something.

I’m still on repub email lists from before Trump, and constantly get asked to STOP THE STEAL...CONTRIBUTE NOW TO THE TRUMP ARMY AND YOUR CONTRIBUTION WILL HAVE A 1000% EFFECT.

I don’t even know what a 1000% effect means. I do know he has made a lot of money grifting off of this. He can communicate that way.

 

[jmcquate]

My take: Biden is a centrist.

I hope your right Brett. My fear is that Biden is a feeble old man that may not make it thru his term in office.

 

[Pags]

So you’re saying nanny state regulate everything European governments have a point about big government regulation of the private sector?

If this does nothing else, hopefully it convinced some of the die hards on both sides that neither part ideology has the right answer all the time, and that every case should be considered on its own merits. That would be quite a big step.
And I say that as someone who is usually against adding government interference.

Yeah, there's certainly some irony here for all the folks who said that businesses can decide who they do business with (wedding cakes) and that businesses should be deregulated and left to do their own thing. But hey, corporations are people with rights...

To the litany of "reasons why a dem pres+congress scare me" lists, keep in mind that for the last four years the other side has had the same type of lists that the MAGA crowd rolled their eyes at. Frankly, in my entire adult life, I struggle to think of a President or Congress that has so grossly moved the needle that everyone's lives are now entirely different. And I think that says a lot about why we shouldn't get too worried when the other guy has the mic and the winning vote.

 

[FrankTheTank]

I’m actually not a fan of shutting him down, but to cite just those two tweets in isolation and not the history leading up to it is disengenuous. Like the previous 10 tweets were about the coronavirus response or something.

I’m still on repub email lists from before Trump, and constantly get asked to STOP THE STEAL...CONTRIBUTE NOW TO THE TRUMP ARMY AND YOUR CONTRIBUTION WILL HAVE A 1000% EFFECT.

I don’t even know what a 1000% effect means. I do know he has made a lot of money grifting off of this. He can communicate that way.

Find me one tweet calling for violence.. I won’t disagree that a lot of money has been passed around.. How did Sleepy Joe become a millionaire?

 

[Hair Warrior]

Wait, I thought a business couldn’t refuse service based on ideology of the customer? Or is that just for bakeries of wedding cakes?

For the record, I’m pro equality. I support consenting adults of any gender/number if they want to get married and have a cake made, but for Apple-Google-Facebook-Amazon-Twitter, you can’t have your cake and eat it too. Pun intended. Waiting for SCOTUS to weigh in on this one.

 

[SlickAg]

So you’re saying nanny state regulate everything European governments have a point about big government regulation of the private sector?

If this does nothing else, hopefully it convinced some of the die hards on both sides that neither part ideology has the right answer all the time, and that every case should be considered on its own merits. That would be quite a big step.
And I say that as someone who is usually against adding government interference.

The “normal” way to remove someone from the conversation is to make them irrelevant and no longer germane to the conversation at hand. In many ways the left needs Trump more than the right. Orange Man Bad was almost the only thing they had going. Take him away and CNN devolves into nothing more than a Cuomo brother lovefest.

I disagree with the reasoning behind her comments to which you refer; I agree with them both in the sense in that I don’t think big tech should censor the democratically elected leader of the free world. My point in sharing that article was that the Germans (and French) know a thing or two about what happens when you promote state-sponsored censorship and a de facto “thought” police controlling what people are and are not allowed to say.

The fact that those two are on Trump’s side on this, morally, should resonate very clearly. Being on the “right side of history” was a very popular phrase in 2020. I think that phrase could also be applied in this situation.

 

[taxi1]

Find me one tweet calling for violence..

Find me a tweet calling for his followers to stop the violence, during the violence. After directing them to march down to the capitol. Crickets. There were none. Instead, there were tweets upping the pressure on his VP during the violence. Did you know Pence’s family was with him?

He celebrated them. He tweeted this...about the “great patriot” rioters who killed a policeman with a fire extinguisher while on the hunt for hostages, based on lies about the election.

“These are the things and events that happen when a sacred landslide election victory is so unceremoniously & viciously stripped away from great patriots who have been badly & unfairly treated for so long, Go home with love & in peace. Remember this day forever!”

 

[Hair Warrior]

Seen on instagram

 

[BigRed389]

The “normal” way to remove someone from the conversation is to make them irrelevant and no longer germane to the conversation at hand. In many ways the left needs Trump more than the right. Orange Man Bad was almost the only thing they had going. Take him away and CNN devolves into nothing more than a Cuomo brother lovefest.

I disagree with the reasoning behind her comments to which you refer; I agree with them both in the sense in that I don’t think big tech should censor the democratically elected leader of the free world. My point in sharing that article was that the Germans (and French) know a thing or two about what happens when you promote state-sponsored censorship and a de facto “thought” police controlling what people are and are not allowed to say.

The fact that those two are on Trump’s side on this, morally, should resonate very clearly. Being on the “right side of history” was a very popular phrase in 2020. I think that phrase could also be applied in this situation.

The left doesn’t “need” Trump. The entire country doesn’t need Trump. The last thing is we need more division and arguing over who is worse. The media might need him but I couldn’t fucking care less about cable news. The left has clearly stated objectives and plans that I usually do not agree with. But they are actual plans. I didn’t like the ACA. Trump still hasn’t, despite bitching about it, actually rolled out a substantially different plan other than removing the individual mandate (which I agreed with the principle of). It’d be nice for the GOP to offer something substantive of their own that conservatives could actually get behind other than “Democrats are evil” for a change.

A private company is not the thought police or state sponsored censorship no matter how many times you say it. That is Big Business influencing the people who choose our leaders in our system of government, which is a valid concern, but a similar yet also very different problem from what you are scared of.
You still haven’t offered any actual comprehensive solution other than a knee jerk reaction to change one thing that actually goes against traditional conservative values just because it’s something you want.
Do I think they should ban Trump? I think they shouldn’t get involved in the POTUS account because that is a third rail for industry to fuck with anything government, especially Federal, but it’s entirely their prerogative to ban his private citizen account and that part of it is NOT a First Amendment issue. I’d prefer that if they felt they had to do it, temporarily suspend all social media accounts for all politicians and force them to use traditional press releases for a while.