Fetter
Registered User
Well I'm pretty much quoting a VFA-106 pilot who just switched over from your seat there buddy. Would you agree that the AF is run more like a corporation than a military branch?
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Your chances are....(penalty box for those who can't help asking about their chances)
- Thread starter chelu55
- Start date
Well I'm pretty much quoting a VFA-106 pilot who just switched over from your seat there buddy. Would you agree that the AF is run more like a corporation than a military branch?
No.
Either way, what does that have to do with if you can "make a difference" as a combat aviator in one branch more than the other? Hint: it doesn't.
To make such a statement is seriously ignorant of what each branch brings to the GWOT fight. It's even worse that you're just repeating something someone told you.
I'm never going to downplay the role that ANY service is playing in current combat operations. It's a joint environment out there, and the O-6s and above who are organizing the show see to it that one service doesn't get more glory than another. The burden is shared, as are the contributions.
Sure they can! These are the same guys that insist the USAF irons their flight suit. Don't spoil their fantasy,...
phrogpilot73
Well-Known Member
Well put, and I had never heard of TAMI 21. You're right about it, it's not pretty for you guys...
Our fantasy is based on our limited interactions with the boys in blue. When I was going through VT's all the AF studs in VT-3 ironed their flight suit (and I thought I was bad because I de-IP'd it). I don't know if it was required, or if they were just stressing for no good reason. I think it was probably more of the latter than the former. Makes for good ribbing material though
I agree wholeheartedly. Once you get into the fleet, you see just how joint the world is. You also realize that aviators (regardless of service) are consummate professionals. Save for a few anomalies, I have been impressed with all of my brothers-in-arms. Although as a Marine helo guy (who thought that the Navy treated their helo guys like red-headed step-children), I wouldn't wish AF Helos on my worst enemy. When we were doing the NEO in Beirut, we had a couple of AF MH-53 Pavelow guys on board to coordinate with us. During lunch, one of them told me that his instructor told him he "ruined his career" by selecting helos. Damn.
The only problem I see with the current purple group hug is a loss of identity/focus on core mission. Each service brings a different flavor to the fight, and the more we try to branch out/meet the joint objectives, the less effective we become at our primary mission set. That piece can't be lost, because then we will become services that are a jack of all trades, master of none.
With that being said, I will embrace the following stereotypes:
The AF is a bunch of creature-comfort hungry Nancys, that iron their flight suits and wear gay scarves. Their uniforms look like they belong at Greyhound and not in combat, and they are a publicly traded corporation (ticker symbol AFX).
The Army is just a bunch of guys that wish they were Marines. Just look at their new uniforms.
The Navy is full of fat, coffee drinking slobs that try to avoid work and cuss too much. Any service that voluntarily goes under water for months at a time (and comes up with a bunch of life partners), or really thinks that sitting off the coast on an Amphib deserves a combat action ribbon is delusional.
Of course, I can say all of the above because I am looking down from the sheer rock face that I climbed, after battling a fire breathing lava monster.
If you think I seriously believe any of the above stereotypes, I don't think you're going to pass your next flight physical because you're insane.
True but Doug Masters was in high school!But Maverick was in the Navy...
Fetter
Registered User
Alright, I'll agree that I'm a bit ignorant on the subject.
From MY limited experience in the CAP, I was much more impressed with the harrier pilots at Cherry Point MCAS than I was with the A-10 pilots at Pope AFB. I'm sorry, but there was too much hair gel going around at Pope. The USMC aviators have a lot more responsibility and are more closely bonded to the ground troops. Like people say on here all the time, you are an officer first and then a pilot. The AF comes across to me like a bunch of hotshots with the coolest new toys. I'm sure the AF is playing a big part in things; I'll step down from that statement. I would take an F-22 over an F/A-18C any day, but when I decided services it went a bit deeper than that. What I've come to realize is that it isn't about what you get to fly, it is who you get to lead.
What the thread starter needs to know though is that he is going to be a bit overwhelmed if he is choosing services based on platform. He better watch out if he goes USMC and finds himself at TBS for six months when all he wants to do is have his jollies flying.
phrogpilot73
Well-Known Member
Wow. Double Wow. That one belongs in a quote log...
I didn't get a chance to read much more, as it's hard to see through the laughter-induced tears.
Harrier Dude
Living the dream
Concur. Come on, dude. As much as I love busting the air forces balls, we can't live without them. Big wing tankers if nothing else. The stereotypes are based on experience (pampered air force, fat lazy navy, retarded army, and super-yut-yut jarheads), but they're still just a small percent of the whole.
Consider ALL of your options with regards to your service choice and look at the pluses and minuses as they apply to you. It's a little different for each person because of your personal preferences, so make your own informed opinion and then act on it.
There is no perfect answer, so don't rule anything out just yet.
You could always "build your experience in the Civil Air Patrol", because, you know, those guys really make a difference.
Fetter
Registered User
Thanks a lot...:icon_cry:
On the scale of 0-10 on experience, I mistakenly thought that my 0.5 was worthy of a post.
Don't you understand, though? The OP is too busy. He can't make an informed opinion because you guys aren't spoon feeding him information. Honestly, I don't know how you can expect someone to be successful in the service if you don't just hand him everything on a silver platter. Sheesh.
Harrier Dude
Living the dream
Do you mean "corporate mentality"?
It is "corporate" and here is my take. Interested in what Huggy and F-15 think.
Air Force is very top down driven. Heavy guys don't take a dump without first clearing it with the command post. AWACS (AKA "The Tube of Colonels") can't change the freq on one of their 50 radios without the permission of the Aircraft Commander.
Even the fighter guys work very hard to "fit the mold." When it comes to section/division tactics and contracts (basically: who will shoot whom in a many v. many fight) USAF guys have that shit wired. They don't even need to discuss it because it is all doctrine to them. Freelancing in USAF is the exception not the rule.
Lots of rules. Lots of them. Like a corporation. Thats not a slam, they are very good at what they do. Even if they are all gay.
Navy/Marine tend more towards pushing the decision making down to the lowest level. FMF-1 says something about the importance of Platoon leaders understanding "commanders intent" because they will have to make tactical decisions in the fog of battle.
USAF could never operate a carrier because that kind of organization requires a lot (A LOT!) of flexibility. Think about all the stuff we do that is total freelancing. Bring 17 jets down out of the overhead stack to a Case I recovery and do it without talking. At all. Sure we have rules, but anyone with more than 10 traps knows that those rules are more like guidelines. Air Force pilots that visit the ship are usually floored that we can do a zip lip recovery.
As an old Soviet Admiral once said (paraphrase) "Fighting the US Navy will be terribly difficult because war is confusion and bedlam and the US Navy practices that on a daily basis."
WRT Joint operations, I agree with F-15 but for one point. USAF leadership still tends to lean towards "Joint" meaning "Air Force in charge" and when it comes down to it, the assignment of the best platform for the role isn't always done neutrally, there is still an element of "where do we get the most visibility so when we ask for $$ from Congress, we get it."