Why does the Marine Corps have its own "Air Force"?

[Jim123]

500 LGBs or Laser Mavericks

Third world construction "standards..." even the Maverick could make a city block disappear over there, never mind the 500 pounders.

 

[OnTopTime]

Article on Close Air Support in Afghanistan

Here's an interesting article in the latest edition of Wired magazine about the changes made by General McChrystal regarding CAS in Afghanistan.

 

[scoolbubba]

Frustrating.

 

[mmx1]

On the other hand, he's killing them in a much more personal way. Direct action raids have gone from 20 in May to 90 in November.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nation-...ial-forces16-2009dec16,0,2135079.story?page=1

 

[Crazy8]

As frustrating as it is, it looks like this situation is here to stay. What are the answers to keeping air power relevant and providing the right kind of support? I've read about 500# bombs packed with less explosive and packaged to reduce lethal radius, but I haven't heard whether they have been useful. Are there other munitions that are best suited for our present situation? Would turboprop CAS platforms be more viable, or are they subject to the same issues? I know it's tough when the enemy has the strategic initiative, but are there different infantry tactics that would allow us to better support them?

 

[mmx1]

I'm too tired to remember where I read it (early bird maybe) but in the last few days there was an AF Colonel who wrote an op-ed lambasting his service for being slow to warm to the idea of limited effect small precision munitions. There are a lot of interesting small munitions under development - bombs with non-fragmenting shell to reduce the wounding radius and make it essentially a blast weapon, as well as laser-guided 2.75" rockets.

Edit:

http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/200...-best-bombs-and-best-plans-into-afghan-fight/

 

[VetteMuscle427]

A 500# bomb filled with concrete would probably stand a good chance of taking down a mud hut or vaporizing a vehicle. Just the pure energy on that thing coming down is pretty substantial...

 

[nittany03]

A 500# bomb filled with concrete would probably stand a good chance of taking down a mud hut or vaporizing a vehicle. Just the pure energy on that thing coming down is pretty substantial...

I thought this was already something which had been tested in Iraq for the exact same reasons.

 

[BusyBee604]

It Fits!

A 500# bomb filled with concrete would probably stand a good chance of taking down a mud hut or vaporizing a vehicle. Just the pure energy on that thing coming down is pretty substantial...

Slightly off subject VM427...but this would make a 'neato' standby avatar for you!!!:icon_zbee
One of our AWs [Derf] was a Plane Captain for this particular 'Scooter' in VA-44, says he loved it 'cause it reminded him of th 'Vette!
BzB

 

[Mustang83]

I thought this was already something which had been tested in Iraq for the exact same reasons.

Had heard the same thing.

One story I heard (note story, I have nothing to back this up with): a small group of insurgents was using the ambulance garage on a hospital as a base of operations, leaving in a truck to plant IED's. We knew where they were, we just couldn't blow it up because of the hospital, which was still in use. The solution: 500# of concrete. Demolished the garage with no damage to the hospital, killed all the dudes I believe.

 

[Jim123]

I thought this was already something which had been tested in Iraq for the exact same reasons.

Had heard the same thing.

IIRC we used these in the late 1990s against Iraqi air defense sites when they started getting froggy for the umpteenth time. Slightly different circumstances but still the same reasons (hit the target but don't break stuff nearby).

I found this link with a bit of help from wikipedia:

http://www.nytimes.com/1999/10/07/world/us-wields-defter-weapon-against-iraq-concrete-bomb.html

 

[widow_34]

A topic and an area close to my heart. Although Im a Brit FAC, I dropped a GBU-12 from a USN FA-18A+ about 3 km south of Mien poshtay (the area in the article) in march this year.It was bandit country when I was there and since the USMC took over it doesnt seem to have changed.

500LB JDAMS/LGB's are the way ahead as long as you can vary the impact angle and also the fuse setting.The Taliban are very very air aware, so we had to employ some novel tactics to catch them at it. Its a waiting game, but as soon as there(the Taliban) blood gets pumping they drop all knowledge and common sense and thats the time to strike. Anyway VFA 87 are the guys that supported me over two days , and I rate the USN very very highly after the support they gave us Limeys.

 

[Birdog8585]

I'm too tired to remember where I read it (early bird maybe) but in the last few days there was an AF Colonel who wrote an op-ed lambasting his service for being slow to warm to the idea of limited effect small precision munitions. There are a lot of interesting small munitions under development - bombs with non-fragmenting shell to reduce the wounding radius and make it essentially a blast weapon, as well as laser-guided 2.75" rockets.

Edit:

http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/200...-best-bombs-and-best-plans-into-afghan-fight/

Some SGM info:

http://www.quad-a.org/Conventions/C...ngs/PM JAMS briefing 20090501 final-2 (2).pdf

 

[pourts]

Incorporating JTAC and FRS training

Good article in Marine Corps Gazette about allowing JTACs to control FRS close air support sorties to get two training requirements done at once. Basically the FRS lets the JTACs piggy back on their flights that are going to happen anyways.

http://www.marinecorpsgazette-digital.com/marinecorpsgazette/201001?pg=24#pg20

Sounds like a good idea, so that means it will probably get killed in short order

 

[ftrooper]

Brand new JTACs need good, professional CAS (and FAC(A)) from experienced crews that know what they are doing. You don't want some dumbas brand new JTAC F-ing up the 9 line and forgetting to deconflict his 155mm suppression to a dumbass CAS solo RAG student who doesn't realize he's about to get into a very dangerous situation. Don't forget the negative training for both as they proceed to F-it up. It's a pain in the ass for the fleet to support EWTGLANT and PAC, but it beats having F'd up JTACS where it counts, and I know the schools appreciate having experienced aircrew overhead to help teach the JTACs/ FACs.