Who's gonna call the ball? (Them's fightin' words..)

[Recovering LSO]

NFO's, bad news men. Soon to be released LSO NATOPS change will require (or maybe just strongly suggest) that the pilot in command be the one that calls the ball. There is a blurb that I will try to find and post here for you. In essence it says that the LSO can tell a lot by the tone of the pilot's voice, and he has more SA than anyone else in the plane about any problems he is having that might affect the approach.

I'll try to find the blurb that has been proposed and get it here for you.

 

[A4sForever]

NFO's bad news men. Soon to be released LSO NATOPS change will require (or maybe just strongly suggest) that the pilot in command be the one that calls the ball. There is a blurb that I will try to find and post here for you. In essence it says that the LSO can tell a lot by the tone of the pilot's voice, and he has more SA than anyone else in the plan about any problems he is having that might affect the approach.

I'll try to find the blurb that has been proposed and get it here for you.

No shit ... ??? Who could know ??? Wow ... will miracles never cease?? The more things change ....

This is EXACTLY why every Air Wing/BOAT I waved required (or strongly suggested, as you say :icon_wink) that the pilot call the ball -- it was SOP -- and in the few occasions when it didn't happen, we 'corrected' the situation during the debrief as it was discovered. And after workups & a cruise, you actually 'knew' the voices of many/most of the pilots.

I cannot, for the life of me, grasp the concept of why any pilot would 'NOT' want to call the ball ... it's another part of how the pilot & the LSO(s) work together. It pays dividends when everything is AFU and the LSO/pilot have to work together to get it 'done'. The NFO ain't flyin' the pass, folks ...

 

[Catmando]

No shit ... ??? Who could know ??? Wow ... will miracles never cease?? The more things change ....

This is EXACTLY why every Air Wing/BOAT I waved required (or strongly suggested, as you say :icon_wink) that the pilot call the ball -- it was SOP -- and in the few occasions when it didn't happen, we 'corrected' the situation during the debrief as it was discovered. And after workups & a cruise, you actually 'knew' the voices of many/most of the pilots.

I cannot, for the life of me, grasp the concept of why any pilot would 'NOT' want to call the ball ... it's another part of how the pilot & the LSO(s) work together. It pays dividends when everything is AFU and the LSO/pilot have to work together to get it 'done'. The NFO ain't flyin' the pass, folks ...

Interesting... I don't disagree and you make a good point.

But FWIW, I always had my RIO call the ball, on all four different cruises. For me it was one less thing to do while I focused, and it kept the RIO in the loop. I answered the LSO with "corrections." Our LSOs never complained, and two of my best friends and bunkroom mates were LSOs. However if I did have something else improtant to say, I personally would transmit it. :icon_wink

Besides, on those rare occasions that I was AFU, you wouldn't ever know it from my deeply resonant, and evenly modulated, baritone voice.

 

[nittany03]

NFO's, bad news men. Soon to be released LSO NATOPS change will require (or maybe just strongly suggest) that the pilot in command be the one that calls the ball. There is a blurb that I will try to find and post here for you. In essence it says that the LSO can tell a lot by the tone of the pilot's voice, and he has more SA than anyone else in the plane about any problems he is having that might affect the approach.

I'll try to find the blurb that has been proposed and get it here for you.

Seeing as the PIC is responsible for all other LSO comms, it makes sense. Why have one guy call the ball and the other guy call "Clara" 2 seconds later when he blows it off the top?

 

[A4sForever]

Interesting... I don't disagree and you make a good point.

But FWIW, I always had my RIO call the ball, on all four different cruises. For me it was one less thing to do while I focused, and it kept the RIO in the loop.....

If I'd have gone to the MIDWAY like I was supposed to ... you wouldn't have had your RIO callin' the BALL for at least one cruise.

And yeah, I know some guys did it, but that was one 'wasted' transmission between you and the RIO and could actually DETRACT from the 'focus' when you needed to focus on flyin' the BALL and communicating w/ the LSO -- not your RIO. And you lose some of the indispensable comm between YOU and the LSO which helps keep YOU in the loop and lets the LSO get a glimpse into your 'head', regardless of whether or not your RIO is seeing the ball and is squared away and 'in focus' ...

Here's the two alternatives:

Either guy: ''I've got the BALL ... do you have it??"

Other guy: "O.K. ... I've got it ... (Shall I) call it...?? "

Guy calling the BALL: "MODEX Whatever, Phantom BALL ... 6.4 ... "

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ or ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Guy flying/calling the BALL: "MODEX Whatever, Phantom BALL ... 6.4 ... "


See what I mean?? Which is quicker?? Which leaves LESS room for confusion?? Which do you think is preferable???

Like I said; the pilot's flyin' the BALL, not the RIO/BN, or right seater. And what about the poor RAN ... ??? AND WHO'S GONNA' CALL THE BALL FOR THE A-7, A-4, OR F-8 DRIVER ??? .... THE NFO ... ????

Fly the BALL, call the BALL !!!

 

[Recovering LSO]

Or my favorite. Came from a guy sitting next to me on an especially sporty low ceiling/vis night approach last year.

Me: "Dude, I don't see shit"
ECMO: "503, Prowler Ball, 6.5, clara ship"
Me: "Dude, WTFuck!!!??"
Paddles: "uhhhh, wave off."

 

[blackbart22]

In the old Guppy (AD-5W) I'd brief my right seater (airborne air controler) to tell me went he saw the ship, when he saw the ball and where it was and then I'd come off the gages. One night I didn't have my regular NFO and the new guy yelled "there's the ship and it's going under the nose!" I then made a simulated bomb run on the tanker waiting to come along side the Yorktown. I'd neglected to tell him which ship I was interested in.

 

[Catmando]

If I'd have gone to the MIDWAY like I was supposed to ... you wouldn't have had your RIO callin' the BALL for at least one cruise.

Probably. But going on liberty together and the telling of lies would have been fun.
And maybe you could have helped me carry my heavy parachute bag.

Either guy: ''I've got the BALL ... do you have it??"
Other guy: "O.K. ... I've got it ... (Shall I) call it...?? "
Guy calling the BALL: "MODEX Whatever, Phantom BALL ... 6.4 ...

Never a problem. All I ever had to say was one word to my RIO: "BALL." He always knew what to say in response. He was the one who looked at the fuel gauge, taking his eyes off the ball, not me. Most of our crews did it that way.
But I did call my own CLARAS.

While I would have had to change my routine, you would have had fun waving on CV-41. Shorter deck, only 3 wires, 13 degree angle-deck instead of 10 degrees, deck pitched even in smooth seas, and the back-end usually had a squirrelly, figure-eight up-and-down and side-to-side movement. It would drive you nuts until you got used to it. :bigeyes2_

 

[a_m]

NFO's, bad news men. Soon to be released LSO NATOPS change will require (or maybe just strongly suggest) that the pilot in command be the one that calls the ball. There is a blurb that I will try to find and post here for you. In essence it says that the LSO can tell a lot by the tone of the pilot's voice, and he has more SA than anyone else in the plane about any problems he is having that might affect the approach.

I'll try to find the blurb that has been proposed and get it here for you.

Yeah, that's not really happening....

 

[Recovering LSO]

Yeah. I know. I was at the conference last week.

 

[a_m]

Any update on it?

 

[A4sForever]

Any update on it?

Why ... why .... why, yes there is, Matt:

UPDATE:

I cannot, for the life of me, grasp the concept of why any pilot would 'NOT' want to call the ball ... it's another part of how the pilot & the LSO(s) work together. It pays dividends when everything is AFU and the LSO/pilot have to work together to get it 'done'. The NFO ain't flyin' the pass, folks ...

THE MORE THINGS CHANGE ... ????

 

[Recovering LSO]

too many subplots to get into here, but there was sufficient community-specific feedback to the contrary. There will more than likely be another Interim Change coming out in the future that will either not use the word "shall" or it will say "aircrew" shall call the ball and then refer the reader to their TMS specific Natops manual to figure out what an "aircrew" is.

 

[Catmando]

...
I cannot, for the life of me, grasp the concept of why any pilot would 'NOT' want to call the ball ...

Well in my case, I had a touch of coprolalia.

 

[a_m]

Why ... why .... why, yes there is, Matt:

UPDATE:

THE MORE THINGS CHANGE ... ????

My question was not directed at you.

too many subplots to get into here, but there was sufficient community-specific feedback to the contrary. There will more than likely be another Interim Change coming out in the future that will either not use the word "shall" or it will say "aircrew" shall call the ball and then refer the reader to their TMS specific Natops manual to figure out what an "aircrew" is.

I'm not surprised by this. The day we read about the change, many O-5's and above were already composing a rebuttal. Even CAG Paddles didn't feel like getting into the fight on this one.z

For my opinion, If I can help the pilot focus more on his pass than taking 2 seconds to stop flying, key the mike and talk, then resume flying, then I am going to do exactly that.