What not to do when you drive off base in uniform.

[Griz882]

At some point we shouldn't be surprised that "the kids" have come up with ideas that older folks don't agree with.

This is why we have clouds...

 

[taxi1]

I once got a letter signed by four members of my department...

I got into an alcohol lubricated discussion with some friends, not engineers, where I argued one of the most segregated things I see regularly is the annual homecoming parade on campus. An awful lot of floats built and operated by different mono-cultural organizations. On the third beer, I started arguing they should be banned. Somewhere in there I probably argued everyone should wear uniforms. ?

There’s some truth in this skit.

 

[nittany03]

. . . I probably argued everyone should wear uniforms. ?

Funnily enough, having been on drill teams all four years of NROTC, I’ve never actually seen a PSU Homecoming parade from outside, only marched in them. While wearing a uniform.

 

[Swanee]

The bias is mostly centered in the arts and humanities side of the house (Science guys probably don’t have the time).

As a liberal arts guy with a degree in theater I can see (and have also seen) the places within the university systems where this exists.

I think it may be the pendulum swing from so many years of conservative actions and thought within the history of higher education. Remember that only recently in history was higher education accessible or available to anyone but affluent white men of status. The educated class (whether through the church or the early schools) was in power, and they kept themselves as homogenous as possible to ensure that they stayed there. I'm sure that makes a lot of very smart people very uncomfortable, and in their minds something that they want to work against. Maybe in doing so they are so fervent that they do so to their own peril.

 

[exNavyOffRec]

What is the basis of your final statement? Does anyone here have actual personal experience with teachers projecting a personal bias? My kids are still younger so we haven't got too far in to complex ideallogic discussions from school but, in general, my kids seem to be getting a fine education that covers the basics. Sure, the topics are covered slightly differently than they were 30yrs ago but none of it would appear to be "brainwashing." Unless we consider the acknowledgement of cultures other than ours and experiences of non-white Americans as brainwashing...

yes, my friends who are teachers that see it (or were seeing it when school was in session) and my personal observations as my kids have gone from elementary to high school, it seems to get more prevalent the higher the grade level they get. While I live in a blue state I live in a more conservative area and it still happens. I would see teachers with pictures of Obama up without issues which spurred questions to my teacher friends, and opened up about all the unwritten rules that apply to conservative teachers but not liberal ones.

Then you have the constant double standards, a kid would get picked on because some kids decided they didn't like them, or because they were poor and it was just kids being kids so besides a small talking to nothing would happen, then the kid ends up killing himself, but a kid has something said about them because they might be gay and there is talk of suspension and everything else.

The kid that killed himself was the kid of one of my co-workers, her only kid and her husband had died in an accident years earlier. If he had said he was picked on because he might be gay he might still be alive. I drove by the scene as it happened close to my house without knowing what had happened, I found out later what all the yellow tarps were for as a guy I know responded to the scene.

 

[wink]

It's not the teachers.

Standardized testing. There is no critical thinking when there is one definite right answer and 3 wrong answers that you choose from.

Attention spans haven't gotten shorter, life has become flashier and more things are competing for our attention now- advertisers created that for us. Scenes in plays have always been about 8 minutes, with action beats occuring every... 2 - 2.5 or so, since the days of Sophocles.

But when you have things that lack advertisers and flashy things competing for your attention, (like Netflix) you start to realize that people will binge watch a 10 hour season of Ozark like it's a movie. (Which is what the producers are now doing BTW, filming a 10 hour movie and breaking it up into 1 or 2 act episodes).

Disagree. Teachers absolutley contribute. Long before you get to a standardized test, critical thinking should be taught and demanded. Oh, and by the way. Critical thinking can be very helpful in passing any standardized multiple choice test. Whatever the faults with standardized tests, and I personally believe the ones I have heard are overwrought and misplaced, they can not be causing a lack of critical thinking skills. It is deeper than that.

 

[Swanee]

Disagree. Teachers absolutley contribute. Long before you get to a standardized test, critical thinking should be taught and demanded. Oh, and by the way. Critical thinking can be very helpful in passing any standardized multiple choice test. Whatever the faults with standardized tests, and I personally believe the ones I have heard are overwrought and misplaced, they can not be causing a lack of critical thinking skills. It is deeper than that.

So is it the teachers or is it the system in which they have to teach? When do you start critical thinking? Standardized testing begins in elementary school. We've reached a point where teaching test taking skills has become equally, to perhaps a little more, as important as covering the material that will be on the test.

The teachers can't go off book, their lesson plans have to directly point to how each of their daily lessons covers only the required material, and how it helps to improve standardized testing scores for their school from the year(s) prior. And there is hell to pay from administration if you aren't within +-10 minutes of your schedule when they do drop in inspections.

Teachers are forced to teach to the lowest common denominator, and show objective test score improvement. They don't have room for subjective grading anymore.

It's a major reason why teachers (both good and bad) are leaving the profession.

No one goes into teaching thinking that they'll just teach to a test and be a robot. The system is what is creating that.

So I think we both agree the system is broken...

 

[taxi1]

critical thinking?

It's interesting to draw the analog to flight training. Airwork, headwork, and procedures. Standardized tests are for airwork and procedures. How do we teach kids good headwork?

 

[wink]

So is it the teachers or is it the system in which they have to teach? When do you start critical thinking? Standardized testing begins in elementary school. We've reached a point where teaching test taking skills has become equally, to perhaps a little more, as important as covering the material that will be on the test.

The teachers can't go off book, their lesson plans have to directly point to how each of their daily lessons covers only the required material, and how it helps to improve standardized testing scores for their school from the year(s) prior. And there is hell to pay from administration if you aren't within +-10 minutes of your schedule when they do drop in inspections.

Teachers are forced to teach to the lowest common denominator, and show objective test score improvement. They don't have room for subjective grading anymore.

It's a major reason why teachers (both good and bad) are leaving the profession.

No one goes into teaching thinking that they'll just teach to a test and be a robot. The system is what is creating that.

So I think we both agree the system is broken...

You don't have to "teach to the test" and move on. On my medical leave from the airline I taught in a HS aviation magnet type program. I had to prepare the kids for the private pilots test, and UAV written. I literally could have taught to the test. That was the curriculum. But I didn't. And when it was over I got thanks from the students for teaching so much more and accolades from parents.

On a closing note. I do agree with much of what you wrote in the above post. I'd just like to point out those are largely pubic school problems. Much less to no issue in private, charter and home school environments. And they take the same standardized tests.

 

[SlickAg]

As a liberal arts guy with a degree in theater I can see (and have also seen) the places within the university systems where this exists.

I think it may be the pendulum swing from so many years of conservative actions and thought within the history of higher education. Remember that only recently in history was higher education accessible or available to anyone but affluent white men of status. The educated class (whether through the church or the early schools) was in power, and they kept themselves as homogenous as possible to ensure that they stayed there. I'm sure that makes a lot of very smart people very uncomfortable, and in their minds something that they want to work against. Maybe in doing so they are so fervent that they do so to their own peril.

I agree with the gist of your post, but how do you define “recently in history” for higher education being accessible to all?

 

[Pags]

I wonder if some aren’t confusing political bias in higher education with that in elementary and secondary education? I have two nieces that teach at the K to 12 level and while both are, politically, mildly left-of-center neither has the time to introduce politics into their classes. They are too busy dealing with the common core requirements.

With reference to post-secondary education (college and university) there is substantial bias and I do have personal experience. The bias is mostly centered in the arts and humanities side of the house (Science guys probably don’t have the time). This bias is genuinely noticeable, leans very hard to the left (read as actual “higher socialism”) and is entirely meant to take an indoctrination approach. I have personally watched students present a centrist-to-right thesis in class and get excoriated by their professors for not using the “right language,” for being “hate-filled and illogical,” and once actually calling a student a “Nazi” (that person was invited to leave the faculty). I once got a letter signed by four members of my department who noted that they were upset that I didn’t spend enough time talking about American expansionism and racism in a World War II course I taught. The issue in higher ed is real enough that some states are struggling with what to do to get some “diversity of thought” back into the classrooms. Where it will end up I can’t say, but tenure is on the way out and young people are coming to higher ed looking for something other than what is offered now (simplistically...more training, less “education”).

This is kind of what I was getting at. Common Core (a Republican thing), at least at the elementary level, doesn't allow for much more than teaching to the test and school admin.

As to higher Ed i feel like those institutions come in 3 flavors:

1. Actual college to develop critical thinking
2. Trade school
3. Dogmatic echo chamber

If we're getting upset about a bunch of hippies at a hippy school doing hippy shit that sounds like yelling into the wind. I think certain classes/majors at a #1 also have a higher liberal factor. If you take a "woman's study" or "Marxism" course don't be surprised at a certain amount of very liberal thought.

I went to a #2 so I spent my time concerned with equations and drinking. There were barely even girls to distract me.

 

[Swanee]

I agree with the gist of your post, but how do you define “recently in history” for higher education being accessible to all?

Within the last 100 years or so.

 

[Swanee]

You don't have to "teach to the test" and move on. On my medical leave from the airline I taught in a HS aviation magnet type program. I had to prepare the kids for the private pilots test, and UAV written. I literally could have taught to the test. That was the curriculum. But I didn't. And when it was over I got thanks from the students for teaching so much more and accolades from parents.

On a closing note. I do agree with much of what you wrote in the above post. I'd just like to point out those are largely pubic school problems. Much less to no issue in private, charter and home school environments. And they take the same standardized tests.

True. Magnet schools get a lot more leeway than the meat grinder that is the generic public school. The idea is that they get a better education. That better education comes from more critical thought and subjective grading. My mom taught (she retired this school year) Literature in a multi-district theater magnet school. It was, in her words, the best teaching job she's ever had. But her students were screened and the entrance bar was high. Student had to audition and send in examples of their work to get in.

 

[Swanee]

It's interesting to draw the analog to flight training. Airwork, headwork, and procedures. Standardized tests are for airwork and procedures. How do we teach kids good headwork?

The problem is that the standard military flight student has been screened and evaluated for the traits that make someone successful vs not. Even then, plenty of folks fail out.

Public schools don't get to not accept a student because they don't think they'll pass. But flight schools do that.

 

[nittany03]

Public schools don't get to not accept a student because they don't think they'll pass. But flight schools do that.

Colleges do that too.