War in Israel

[Random8145]

Elon is smarter in an engineering sense, but that's it IMO. From a business sense, he is not very smart and he is incredibly thin-skinned and vindictive. He also had better watch it. The majority of his massive net worth is tied to the valuation of Tesla, but the company is likely very overvalued. It is worth more than the other big automakers combined I believe, yet sells only a small fraction of the cars. The new "Cyber Truck" I find absurd and a real risk to the company. If he isn't careful, then if/when the market eventually corrects, he'll go back down to being worth a measly few billion.

 

[Hotdogs]

My DoD organization is a part of the Starship test plan. Fun fact, SpaceX wanted to splash Starship on our range at PMRF. That was the original plan. We looked at their range safety plan and rejected it. DoD and NASA has a set of range safety standards that ensure that we don't hazard aircraft or surface vessels.

FWIW, In my experience, PMRF was one of the biggest pain in the asses to conduct any flight or live fire event (Especially compared to the lower 48). Got it, it’s a test range, but frankly some DoD rules are fucking stupid. Only inherently made worse by local civilians who try to find the fastest way to “No” and should’ve been canned a long time ago. I’ll chalk that up to island culture.

I don’t think PMRF is a good sample to judge the safety culture of SpaceX, especially considering NASA and DoD think they’re safe enough to launch our astronauts into space. Regardless, Elon is definitely a loose cannon as a CEO and entrepreneur.

 

[taxi1]

Do you really think his shitpost is going to change anyone’s worldview? This is just another a drop in the ocean as far as I’m concerned.

Because he controls Starlink, which is of strategic importance to Ukraine and Hamas, what he says matters.

 

[Brett327]

FWIW, In my experience, PMRF was one of the biggest pain in the asses to conduct any flight or live fire event (Especially compared to the lower 48). Got it, it’s a test range, but frankly some DoD rules are fucking stupid. Only inherently made worse by local civilians who try to find the fastest way to “No” and should’ve been canned a long time ago. I’ll chalk that up to island culture.

I don’t think PMRF is a good sample to judge the safety culture of SpaceX, especially considering NASA and DoD think they’re safe enough to launch our astronauts into space. Regardless, Elon is definitely a loose cannon as a CEO and entrepreneur.

The safety standards ensure we don’t kill someone, which the end user doesn’t really care about in the grand scheme, because it’s not their responsibility. NASA uses the exact same standards that we do. It’s not so much about the safety of the vehicle, as it is planning for what happens if something goes wrong, and where the debris can go if a vehicle explodes 800K feet up in the air.

 

[Average Monke]

Because he controls Starlink, which is of strategic importance to Ukraine and Hamas, what he says matters.

Are you arguing his shitposts and Starlink are fundamentally interconnected? If so, I am not following that logic.

 

[Mirage]

Musk is at least largely responsible for PayPal, Tesla and the current EV boom, Neuralink, Space-X, reusable rockets, StarLink, and space tourism. That's off the top of my head. But yes, he's also made mistakes and has a big mouth, so I'm sure the man is just a lucky idiot.

 

[taxi1]

Are you arguing his shitposts and Starlink are fundamentally interconnected? If so, I am not following that logic.

Why aren’t they? It’s the same guy.

 

[Hotdogs]

The safety standards ensure we don’t kill someone, which the end user doesn’t really care about in the grand scheme, because it’s not their responsibility. NASA uses the exact same standards that we do. It’s not so much about the safety of the vehicle, as it is planning for what happens if something goes wrong, and where the debris can go if a vehicle explodes 800K feet up in the air.

Fair. I guess the issue is with PMRF ranges ability to support SpaceX operations based off of their requirements… not that they’re an inherently unsafe organization then, correct?

 

[Brett327]

Fair. I guess the issue is with PMRF ranges ability to support SpaceX operations based off of their requirements… not that they’re an inherently unsafe organization then, correct?

No, they're inherently unsafe. A good example: SpaceX's approach to range clearance is issuing a NOTAM and NOTMAR, hoping that everyone will get out of the way. That never works. We always have to chase merchant vessels out of our hazard areas - every single time. This takes time and money that SpaceX wasn't interested in investing. On that basis, we declined their request to operate here.

 

[Average Monke]

Why aren’t they? It’s the same guy.

So what? Does shitposting automatically change who get access to Startlink? The seem like entirely different issues so please help me understand.

 

[JTS11]

No, they're inherently unsafe. A good example: SpaceX's approach to range clearance is issuing a NOTAM and NOTMAR, hoping that everyone will get out of the way. That never works. We always have to chase merchant vessels out of our hazard areas - every single time. This takes time and money that SpaceX wasn't interested in investing. On that basis, we declined their request to operate here.

Sounds like a similar attitude towards public safety with Teslas and their autonomous driving capabilities.

We’re All Unwitting and Unsafe Lab Rats in Elon Musk’s Self-Driving Car Project

US regulations that fall between lax and nonexistent mean Tesla is able to treat car buyers as beta testers and public roads as a testing ground for its accident-prone “self-driving” cars. It’s a dangerous experiment that all Americans are being subject to.

jacobin.com

 

[Brett327]

Sounds like a similar attitude towards public safety with Teslas and their autonomous driving capabilities.

We’re All Unwitting and Unsafe Lab Rats in Elon Musk’s Self-Driving Car Project

US regulations that fall between lax and nonexistent mean Tesla is able to treat car buyers as beta testers and public roads as a testing ground for its accident-prone “self-driving” cars. It’s a dangerous experiment that all Americans are being subject to.

jacobin.com

Also worth noting that they still plan on crashing Starship into the Pacific Ocean with zero meaningful range clearance efforts. I hope they don't hurt someone in the process.

 

[FLGUY]

Also worth noting that they still plan on crashing Starship into the Pacific Ocean with zero meaningful range clearance efforts. I hope they don't hurt someone in the process.

What do the other entities that deal in this “industry” like NASA typically do in the same situation? Pay for the extra range clearing efforts that you mentioned?

 

[Brett327]

What do the other entities that deal in this “industry” like NASA typically do in the same situation? Pay for the extra range clearing efforts that you mentioned?

Yep. Depending on the volume of seaspace, we bring in 4-6 "pouncer" aircraft - usually P-3/P-8/C-130 - a few days before the test flight. NASA's problem for a space launch is a little less complicated than ours is for a BMD test because they aren't crashing multiple large missiles into each other 150 KM above the earth, but NASA has to account for what the instantaneous debris field looks like at any point along their vehicle's trajectory in case it goes off-nominal and they have to terminate.

 

[Hotdogs]

No, they're inherently unsafe. A good example: SpaceX's approach to range clearance is issuing a NOTAM and NOTMAR, hoping that everyone will get out of the way. That never works. We always have to chase merchant vessels out of our hazard areas - every single time. This takes time and money that SpaceX wasn't interested in investing. On that basis, we declined their request to operate here.

Also worth noting that they still plan on crashing Starship into the Pacific Ocean with zero meaningful range clearance efforts. I hope they don't hurt someone in the process.

…so idiots not following well established procedures for safety are SpaceX’s fault? Makes total sense… or better yet, block off the entire airspace for a recovery operation. They made a cost-informed decision to operate at a range or facility safely. Sounds like PMRF couldn’t provide the necessary requirements for their operations.