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War in Israel

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ABMD

Bullets don't fly without Supply
We do have controls for that, and in the case of Ukraine most of it is for military material that can't really be 'corrupted' and for which we have pretty decent accountability.
A 60 Minutes piece on how some of our aid is being used in Ukraine.

I totally trust our Senators:

The senators, and other U.S. officials, told 60 Minutes there have been no substantiated cases of American weapons being diverted.

"We're monitoring. We're following every piece of equipment," Blumenthal said. "There has been no diversion. No evidence of misappropriation. This is an American success story on aiding a partner fighting for freedom."
 
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Mirage

Well-Known Member
pilot
Not really the point. It’s not as though spending less on X makes spending on Y more attractive to those making resourcing decisions in the government. I always love it when the isolationist republicans cite domestic social problems like poverty, homeless veterans, etc as a reason to stop foreign aid, when they’re also the party that wants to eliminate welfare and the social safety net.
The point of my argument wasn't that spending less on foreign aid makes spending more on education more attractive. It was one of many alternatives I could provide that are more attractive and better serve taxpayers. In reality, we are like the token irresponsible, financially illiterate American who has all their credit cards nearly maxed out and is way overextended, but is debating between eating at one 5 star restaurant vs a different one when they should be eating pasta at home.

I know.. my wife hates my analogies, too, but I won't stop.

However, to suggest we're writing free checks for these foreign mil aid proposals is disingenuous. A majority of it is existing stocks that will be replenished by American workers.
If by "replenished by American workers" you mean most of the money will go towards lining the pockets of our corrupt defense industry's executives' pockets while dramatically overpaying for materials, and a bit of the money will go to the few regular guys running the machines pumping out artillery shells... Then yes, you're right. It will support some jobs, too. No comparison to spending it on education.

Yes, let's do just that.

Words.
This is an Israel thread, and we've debated this already on the Europe one, but suffice it to say my opinion that Russia poses no conventional military threat to US taxpayers or our core interests is stronger than ever. As is my belief that it's long past time that our completely capable European allies take responsibility for their own defense, without our substantial help, short of a NATO vs Russia war. Russia isn't even the best military in Ukraine, let alone Europe.
 

ChuckMK23

FERS and TSP contributor!
pilot
Also, if the Marine squadron goes ashore, that f'ing SuppO will unload his lobster and steak supply for the ship's crew.

I hate those mf'ers. ?
Recalling the time we pulled into port at Haifa, 1989 and beer on the pier commenced with nothing but two ingredients - ribeye steaks and Budweiser beer. Copious amounts of both (the steaks would expire) Every sailor was allowed to bring a guest and the local girls obliged. It was epic. The local female population indeed got plenty of American Beef.
 

JTS11

Well-Known Member
pilot
Contributor
@Mirage But please explain to the rest of AW the history of the Donbas, and how it's not in our national interest to support an emerging democracy seeking to be tied to the West.

We spend close to $800 bn dollars/yr to mostly combat 2 main threats. This proposal is a high return on investment IMO.
 

Mirage

Well-Known Member
pilot
@Mirage But please explain to the rest of AW the history of the Donbas, and how it's not in our national interest to support an emerging democracy seeking to be tied to the West.

We spend close to $800 bn dollars/yr to mostly combat 2 main threats. This proposal is a high return on investment IMO.
I have explained this in great depth in the Europe thread.

Cliff notes are that it is in our interest, but not enough of a priority to warrant borrowing $150+ billion and counting, which will amount to well over twice that figure by the time our children pay off the debt, when our European allies are more than capable and it is really in their problem, not ours. Russia threatens them, not us.. unless it goes nuclear, which our involvement makes more likely, not less. Additionally, focusing on a 3rd tier power like Russia diminishes our capability of fighting our only 2 actual threats: our debt, and China, in order of importance.
 

JTS11

Well-Known Member
pilot
Contributor
I have explained this in great depth in the Europe thread.

Cliff notes are that it is in our interest, but not enough of a priority to warrant borrowing $150+ billion and counting, which will amount to well over twice that figure by the time our children pay off the debt, when our European allies are more than capable and it is really in their problem, not ours. Russia threatens them, not us.. unless it goes nuclear, which our involvement makes more likely, not less. Additionally, focusing on a 3rd tier power like Russia diminishes our capability of fighting our only 2 actual threats: our debt, and China, in order of importance.
I understand your point, but disagree. We swing the big 'club' in the world. It's in our interest for Russia to be defeated in their naked aggression in UKR. A pull back of support, would be a bad signal to China...especially when UKR is fighting above its weight.

The debt is a separate subject. I agree it's an issue, but 100 bn right now, with this security situation, is peanuts IMO. Some of that aid is mil aid to Taiwan.

Some European nations are punching above their weight, mostly in Eastern Europe. Probably the UK too..Others, not so much. Hopefully diplomatic pressure can be applied. Who knows.
 

Random8145

Registered User
If by "replenished by American workers" you mean most of the money will go towards lining the pockets of our corrupt defense industry's executives' pockets while dramatically overpaying for materials, and a bit of the money will go to the few regular guys running the machines pumping out artillery shells... Then yes, you're right. It will support some jobs, too. No comparison to spending it on education.
Yeah, but the teachers unions are also very corrupt and paying more to teachers won't necessarily improve education, as teachers often lack control over the classroom.
I have explained this in great depth in the Europe thread.

Cliff notes are that it is in our interest, but not enough of a priority to warrant borrowing $150+ billion and counting, which will amount to well over twice that figure by the time our children pay off the debt, when our European allies are more than capable and it is really in their problem, not ours. Russia threatens them, not us.. unless it goes nuclear, which our involvement makes more likely, not less. Additionally, focusing on a 3rd tier power like Russia diminishes our capability of fighting our only 2 actual threats: our debt, and China, in order of importance.
Weakening Russia hurts China as well, as the two help one another. A stronger Russia means indirectly a stronger China. Also I would disagree that focusing on Russia diminishes our capability of dealing with China or our debt.
 

hscs

Registered User
pilot
If I were in the House right now, I would nominate @mad dog for Speaker...who couldn't get behind this bipartisan plan?

Maybe not necessarily a 'woke' candidate, but obviously believes in equal pay for women, and EV Mustangs with an air scoop to cool down the batteries. ?
And with his awesome watch - everything done will be done on time.
 

Mirage

Well-Known Member
pilot
Yeah, but the teachers unions are also very corrupt and paying more to teachers won't necessarily improve education, as teachers often lack control over the classroom.

Weakening Russia hurts China as well, as the two help one another. A stronger Russia means indirectly a stronger China. Also I would disagree that focusing on Russia diminishes our capability of dealing with China or our debt.
Nothing you said here makes a bit of sense or is accurate in any way. Literally every word is completely false.

Somehow Brett and I end up on different sides of nearly every issue, but we both always disagree with you. I don't know how it's possible. You just come on here talking about things you have absolutely no clue about, but disagree definitively with anything anyone ever says. I'd love it if you'd stop wasting my time by replying to my posts. They aren't for you.
 

Random8145

Registered User
Nothing you said here makes a bit of sense or is accurate in any way. Literally every word is completely false.

Somehow Brett and I end up on different sides of nearly every issue, but we both always disagree with you. I don't know how it's possible. You just come on here talking about things you have absolutely no clue about, but disagree definitively with anything anyone ever says. I'd love it if you'd stop wasting my time by replying to my posts. They aren't for you.
That isn't true, there's plenty of things stated by people here that I agree with. And if you don't want holes in your arguments pointed out, then you shouldn't post.
 
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