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War in Israel

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Mirage

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Random8145 said:
Yes, that is the excuse given, but that was generations ago.
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Random8145 said:
Also, if you go back far enough, the entire Middle East belongs to Jews and Christians. It only became Muslim after Islam came into existence and began violent conquest.
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Pretty funny that you argue that what happened in the 1940s was too long ago to be relevant, then you bring up who owned it before 600 something AD.

I think if you try, you can imagine what it'd be like if your state were taken over by another culture (let's say the Arabs), then those people decided to kick you and everyone there out of their homes and give your land to their friends. You'd probably be so angry you might fight for your land back. If your "occupiers" then corralled you in a corner of your land, wouldn't let you out, and controlled everything from your water to your freedom, you might be so frustrated you voted for leaders who promised to stop at nothing to kill your occupiers and didn't accept any outcome short of getting your land back. You might raise your children to think the same way. You might be willing to commit atrocities to aid that objective. You might be... Like Hamas.

There are 2 sides to every story.
 
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Random8145

Registered User
Mirage said:
Pretty funny that you argue that what happened in the 1940s was too long ago to be relevant, then you bring up who owned it before 600 something AD.
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I am fully aware of that, but that's kinda my point. If the current Palestinians want to argue the land is theirs, then so could the Israelis.
Mirage said:
I think if you try, you can imagine what it'd be like if your state were taken over by another culture (let's say the Arabs), then those people decided to kick you and everyone there out of their homes and give your land to their friends. You'd probably be so angry you might fight for your land back. If your "occupiers" then corralled you in a corner of your land, wouldn't let you out, and controlled everything from your water to your freedom, you might be so frustrated you voted for leaders who promised to stop at nothing to kill your occupiers and didn't accept any outcome short of getting your land back. You might raise your children to think the same way. You might be willing to commit atrocities to aid that objective. You might be... Like Hamas.

There are 2 sides to every story.
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And if the side that kicked my ancestors out made multiple peace offerings, including a willingness to give much of the land back and allow my people to form their own state and share the holy city, I might well decide enough is enough with the violence. And Hamas's level of violence is not anything Israel has done. Your analogy also is not taking into account Israel taking control of the West Bank and Gaza after two attempted wars of annihilation.
 
hscs

hscs

Registered User
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Random8145 said:
I am fully aware of that, but that's kinda my point. If the current Palestinians want to argue the land is theirs, then so could the Israelis.

And if the side that kicked my ancestors out made multiple peace offerings, including a willingness to give much of the land back and allow my people to form their own state and share the holy city, I might well decide enough is enough with the violence. And Hamas's level of violence is not anything Israel has done. Your analogy also is not taking into account Israel taking control of the West Bank and Gaza after two attempted wars of annihilation.
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So why did Native Americans keep fighting? Why has Ireland been a hot bed through history?
 
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Random8145

Registered User
hscs said:
So why did Native Americans keep fighting? Why has Ireland been a hot bed through history?
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The Native Americans kept fighting while they were being treated very poorly by the white man. Since then, they've stopped. Ireland was oppressed by the British but no one supported the Irish fighting the British with brutality, for example the IRA.
 
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Random8145

Registered User
IRfly said:
No one cared about North Vietnam? You're aware of the ~58,000 US dead? No one cared about Crimea or Georgia? Kosovo? You're not serious.
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Way to twist my words out of context. I'm not talking about the Vietnam War, I'm talking about after the Vietnam War when the North invaded the South. The international community was never upset about that as they've been about Israel.

Nor were they upset about Kosovo or Crimea or Georgia in the way they are over Israel. When Putin invaded Crimea, the response was he was invited to a big state dinner (I forget what event) and France at the time approved the sale of two new helicopter aircraft carriers to Russia.
 
M

Mirage

Well-Known Member
pilot
Random8145 said:
I am fully aware of that, but that's kinda my point. If the current Palestinians want to argue the land is theirs, then so could the Israelis.

And if the side that kicked my ancestors out made multiple peace offerings, including a willingness to give much of the land back and allow my people to form their own state and share the holy city, I might well decide enough is enough with the violence. And Hamas's level of violence is not anything Israel has done. Your analogy also is not taking into account Israel taking control of the West Bank and Gaza after two attempted wars of annihilation.
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Can you really not fathom how someone in that situation I described would decide not to settle for a half peace where their occupiers still held their grandparents homes and cities? What is your point exactly... That Palestinians are crazy and illogical because they didn't take that peace and you are too small minded to understand why?

Random8145 said:
The Native Americans kept fighting while they were being treated very poorly by the white man. Since then, they've stopped. Ireland was oppressed by the British but no one supported the Irish fighting the British with brutality, for example the IRA.
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Yes, and Palestinians are still fighting while being treated poorly by the white man. I am baffled by you.
 
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Random8145

Registered User
Mirage said:
Can you really not fathom how someone in that situation I described would decide not to settle for a half peace where their occupiers still held their grandparents homes and cities? What is your point exactly... That Palestinians are crazy and illogical because they didn't take that peace
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To a good degree, yes. It's not like they were mass slaughtered like the Eastern European and Russian peoples were by the Nazis. To have the level of maniacal hatred they have, and to have rejected such extensive peace offers, shows an EXTREME degree of intolerance. Again, we're not even talking the original generation who experienced being moved, we're talking multiple generations down. To maintain such hatred and refusal to make nice is nuts.

Mirage said:
Yes, and Palestinians are still fighting while being treated poorly by the white man. I am baffled by you.
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What white man is mistreating the Palestinians? All the "white" nations that are liberal democracies seem to care a lot about the Palestinians. It is the Palestinians' own leadership and fellow surrounding Arab nations that seem not to care about their plight one bit.

When the Irish were fighting the British, the IRA was condemned for its actions. But you don't get such global condemnation, other than as a formality, of those Palestinians that commit acts of terrorism.
 
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