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VMFAT-101 Update
- Thread starter scoober78
- Start date
We had a really nice and in depth brief about it for a Safety Stand Down from the ASO School folks, complete with min my min analysis of the decision making from all parties and some gucci visuals compiled from the data tapes. Don't know why they would give it to studs in the HTs and not active squadrons...
This! When I went through training with the USAF during Nav school I saw how much better they were about disseminating lessons learned from mishaps. Our USAF folks here can speak smarter about it but that was what I saw years ago and from what I know it still holds true.
The USAF even publishes results from their investigations for the public to see on this site, something that I was unaware of until someone here linked to it a few weeks ago.
Impressive. I couldn't imagine the USN/USMC doing that.
ASO school goes through the entire mishap with visuals and radio. Very good analysis yet very scary/sad. The Djibouti mishap phrogpilot talks about is also discussed. It really is unfortunate we don't disseminate this information more readily. HAZREPs are very good at what they do and I think SIRs can have an equal, if not greater, impact.
Can't claim privilege for that from a subpoena. If a DA or a civil litigator wants to see it......he's gonna see it.
JMCQUATE, if you're implying that FOIA requests will break down the concept of privilege...? You're wrong. The Navy's concept of privilege with specific respect to Safety Investigation Reports (SIRs) has been challenged all the way to SCOTUS - and upheld.
My point is that the more people end up getting read into the specifics of mishaps, the greater the chance of the information being used for unintended purposes. Its a balancing act between getting the information out to those who can best benefit from it while at the same time not just posting it on America's "all read board"...
Harrier Dude
Living the dream
.....those people NOT making the same mistakes.
This is what we say that we want. We should either admit that we don't really care in the long run or post the mishaps like the USAF does.
Pick one.
Just, for the love of GOD, quit treating mishap data like it was TS/SCI information and hoarding it amongst the nerds while everybody else trades rumors on what they heard somebody said that they thought happened...
.....and learning nothing.
+100. My own knowledge of mishaps within my own community (T/M/S that is) is normally limited to the rumor mill. I've probably read a book worth of Hazreps though
Great find, thanks for the link. I can't believe I've never heard of this either...and I can't believe we don't have something like this. Just by quickly perusing a few of the short summaries, I've already picked up a few nuggets I could use to keep me out of trouble in the future (or, at the very least, reinforce previous lessons I've learned). They also gave me an insight into how pilots handled different scenarios, from which I could see what worked and what didn't.
We need this.
magnetfreezer
Well-Known Member
Just to clarify, those are the AIB (Air Force version of the JAGMAN); they are not allowed to consider aircrew statements given under privilege or other privileged evidence. SIBs are not releasable outside the target AF audience. I will agree, though that the AF is good at sharing those w/in the safety community and the "read-in" if the FSO thinks it would be useful is generally the required annual 10 min powerpoint on protecting privilege. Even the AIB has the protection at the end against the board president's opinion on the cause, etc being used in legal proceedings to encourage open discussion.
If you haven't already, sign up for a WAMHRS/WESS account. I assume if you're getting HAZREPs then you have one, but if you don't, get one. If you already have one, then you should also be getting all of your community's mishap reports. If you aren't, ask your ASO to look at your permissions so you get all reports.+100. My own knowledge of mishaps within my own community (T/M/S that is) is normally limited to the rumor mill. I've probably read a book worth of Hazreps though
Finally, you should always feel free to ask your Safety department to find old SIRs. If they can't, then call the Safety Center. They exist to support the fleet and your platform's rep should be able to find the info you're requesting. The info is out there, but like most things in the Navy it's not handed to you on a platter, you have to go digging (which is unfortunate in this case).