US AIRWAYS Crash in the Hudson River

[Single Seat]

As those in the know, most of the posts by AW members here have referred to the "flight crew" and even given due credit to the flight attendants. But predictably, everyone else is falling over themselves with praise for the Captain and even his glider training. Have you seen anywhere that the Captain was actually the pilot flying that leg? It is just as likely the first officer was actually flying the aircraft. Captain gets the credit for the ultimate overall outcome as he is the guy with the strips. But praise of his piloting stills may be misplaced.

If at the very least the media could mention the "ditch switch" is on the FO's side of the over head panel!

 

[Flugelman]

On another note, I found a picture over at PPRUNE of the ditching, you can see the jet in the upper right hand corner.

From his attitude it looks like he is bleeding off a lot of airspeed... Nose is way up that high off the water.

 

[wink]

And conversely, for example, the Delta Flt 191 disaster at DFW back in '85. The pilot took a lot of blame for that crash. I have always contended that most airline pilots would have flown that same approach, with the same results. I say this with the understanding that I do not have the experience or training of said pilots.

Some pilots may have. It is true that less was known about wind shear and micro bursts at the time. But the phenomena wasn't unknown. I have seen the video of the cockpit recreation of the accident made for the NTSB. That airplane hit the ground at considerably less then full power with lots of excess knots. That was unused energy. You don't need to now anything about micro bursts to know that if you have speed and power available there is no need to hit the ground. That is why the crew took heat for that accident. Had they used all the energy they had they might have just hit the ground 4000 feet down the runway, no one knows. But the FAA takes a dim view of hitting the ground unintentionally in an airplane that has two good wings, with plenty of power and speed.

 

[FLYTPAY]

*******************************************
I think that is one of the most appropriate statements regarding this accident.
The new media will glorify the pilot but he only did what any of us might do? Get the fucking thing down without killing anybody. When the emergency happens you have little time to figure out what to do and you better have a game plan well before the fact. Isn't that is what training and practice is all about?
The fortunate part of this was the shallow water allowing everyone to get out without holding their breath for :10 minutes. I'll bet it was cold though .....

I totally disagree. This crew's judgement was flawless as evidenced by the end result. What percent would have tried for Teterboro, fucked up the ditching, misjudged the altitude, planted it in the middle of Manhattan. Don't take away from what these guys did because what they did was truly a great event in aviation. The water was not that shallow by the way, the plane was floating down the Hudson, not hung up on the bottom. Watch the prideful, "they did what "any" of us might do". How many times have you screwed the pooch on a simulated forced landing to a field in a Cessna? I know I have done it more than once and will probably do it again. Botton line, these guys, did one hell of a job, don't try to take that away from them. Your post screams of bullshit and arrogance for a salty 24,700 hour guy. No two boat landings are ever the same right?....but of course we are trained.....blah blah blah.

PS-US Air stock was one of the best plays yesterday. The plane crashed about 40 minutes before the markets closed, going from 8.49@3:15pm to 7.28@3:50pm to 7.55@4:00pm market close. It was back up at $8.50 just after the markets opened today. So if you would havebought while watching people climb onto the wing hearing about the 100% survival rate, you would have gotten the 12% that you are going to lose on Jan 20

 

[exhelodrvr]

I totally disagree. This crew's judgement was flawless as evidenced by the end result. What percent would have tried for Teterboro, fucked up the ditching, misjudged the altitude, planted it in the middle of Manhattan. Don't take away from what these guys did because what they did was truly a great event in aviation. The water was not that shallow by the way, the plane was floating down the Hudson, not hung up on the bottom. Watch the prideful, "they did what "any" of us might do". How many times have you screwed the pooch on a simulated forced landing to a field in a Cessna? I know I have done it more than once and will probably do it again. Botton line, these guys, did one hell of a job, don;t try to take that away from them.

"Don't take away from what these guys did because what they did was truly a great event in aviation."

That's not taking anything away from how well they performed; I just think that most crews would probably have done as good of a job.

 

[FLYTPAY]

I just think that most crews would probably have done as good of a job.

I highly doubt this. I will post a poll.

 

[FLYTPAY]

Flight 1549: Would most crews have done as good a job/had same results?

Please only pilots(military or private pilot+)/NFO's/aircrew vote.

 

[HercDriver]

I thought that the preferred option for Hercs was to bailout, it was my understanding that your planes had a tendancy to 'shatter' when they ditched.

Under 3.3.5:

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/docs/c-130-bar.htm

No parachutes on the CGs C-130's. They cost too much (upkeep, training, proficiency) so it is into the drink for us.
And the Columbian and Portland birds broke apart, but from the pics I saw I wouldn't describe it as shattering. And the pilots lived on both of those, I believe.

And really, isn't that the most important thing?

</threadjack>

 

[ChunksJR]

I'm not going to vote...but a few comments.

I think the key is the decision to ditch...very difficult. The flare to arrive at as low of a descent rate as possible. In the last 40 years, this was the only water landing not to result in death.

I think it speaks for itself that this was a SH landing. As for others being able to do it? I don't know...Don't want anyone else to have to, but want them to be as ready as this crew apparently was.

 

[wink]

Sorry, but if you are a pilot, especially a professional pilot, mil or civ, and you don't think you would have done what these guys did, as well as they did, then you might be in the wrong business. If you take your training seriously, if you take your responsibilities seriously, then you should be confident enough to answer yes to the above poll. No pilot, no NFO, no cop, no soldier should ever accept the fact that the out come of an emergency/life threatening encounter, will ever end in anything but survival/victory.

 

[flyn4pride]

i agree with that, if you know you have to ditch the airplane then you are going to put yourself in the best possible situation to make it out

 

[HercDriver]

Sorry, but if you are a pilot, especially a professional pilot, mil or civ, and you don't think you would have done what these guys did, as well as they did, then you might be in the wrong business. If you take your training seriously, if you take your responsibilities seriously, then you should be confident enough to answer yes to the above poll. No pilot, no NFO, no cop, no soldier should ever accept the fact that the out come of an emergency/life threatening encounter, will ever end in anything but survival/victory.

I agree with this, but the poll says "crew". I've had minor emergencies, and some of the aircrew rushed and had to be told to throttle back, with boldface from the EP skipped. Not really sure what the EP is for the multiple engine power loss, but if I were the only person involved I would have a different confidence level than if I had to rely on others. As PIC you have to ride herd sometimes, but it just makes more work for you.

 

[FLYTPAY]

Sorry, but if you are a pilot, especially a professional pilot, mil or civ, and you don't think you would have done what these guys did, as well as they did, then you might be in the wrong business. If you take your training seriously, if you take your responsibilities seriously, then you should be confident enough to answer yes to the above poll. No pilot, no NFO, no cop, no soldier should ever accept the fact that the out come of an emergency/life threatening encounter, will ever end in anything but survival/victory.

Wink, this is MOST CREWS....not ME, not YOU, not A4's, not SKEETERMAN....RTFQ

 

[exhelodrvr]

BTW, this assumes that the decision to land in the river was the correct one. Once that decsion has been made, for good or bad, then landing in the river was the only option. Just fly the profile, which would be something they have done in the simulator.

 

[wink]

Wink, this is MOST CREWS....not ME, not YOU, not A4's, not SKEETERMAN....RTFQ

I did. I am sorry if my post might have confused the question at hand. I'll be clear, I believe that most, of the professional crews out there would have done as good of a job. They may not have done the exact same thing, but just as good overall. And to my post, I believe that most, very nearly all, professional aviators out there do agree with my post.

BTW, I have it on good authority that Skeeterman WAS the First Officer and the pilot at the controls for the ditching. He was the real hero. We should be hearing from him shortly.