Tracking Jets as an old dude

[Swanee]

I'm no fighter pilot, and I never flew in the Navy. But I've got a pretty good view oft he AF fighter life from the outside. The age thing is all about "becoming part of the culture".

It's much easier to inculcate a 23 year old into the fighter culture than some that are pushing 30. OptionsDollarAir alluded to this. Same reason the AF is a bit discriminatory toward FAIPs (e.g. SERGRADs) going to fighters... my opinion.

The pre-frontal cortex isn't fully formed until age 25ish. There is a big difference between someone who is 23-24, and 28-30... both in terms of where they are in their family life, spiritual life, financial situation, etc... And it's not always conducive to the AF culture of "the fighter squadron" and becoming an integral and trusted part of it. To be clear, It requires spending a lot of time focusing on becoming smarter and better. Worthy goals... but a potentially hard and conflicting lifestyle.

You've got to decide if you want to become a significant part of that culture, or just do a touch and go after trying it for 5 years, and then move on.

Age, from a physical standpoint, is s a non-event when it comes to flying fighters.

BTW, I know a guy that showed up at USAF pilot training in 2018, 1 month before he turned 40... as a 2Lt. Reservist.

Well. Maybe not time spent on becoming smarter and better, but being easier to condition to kill another human being.

I believe the instances of PTSD in Pred/Reaper crews is related. The AF as a whole doesn't condition their officers to be practitioners of violence the way other services do. For instance, in the Marine Corps one of the first things you learn is your 4 weapon's handling rules- then you put a BFA on and start aiming and pulling the trigger at other Marines in the field. Treat every weapon as if it were loaded, never point a weapon at anything you don't intend to shoot, keep your weapon on safe until you're ready to fire, keep your finger off the trigger until you intend to fire. Then we look down the sights of a real weapon, aim for a living person's head or chest and pull the trigger with blank ammo loaded.

The Marine Corps is also the youngest service. I believe that's by design on a certain level. It's much easier to condition an 18-22 year (who's brain hasn't fully developed yet) than it could be a 28 year old.


Yet if we look at how the USAF selects (or selected) RPA folks, it was folks who didn't do very well in pilot training. Perhaps they joined the AF to be a cargo type, perhaps they never wanted to kill, they wanted to fly. Now they're sent to a community that does (well, did... we're not nearly as busy as we had been in the past) a lot of killing, and a lot of hanging around and looking at the killing we did. We're putting people in positions without the proper conditioning.

So I see merritt in the "Fighter Pilot" thought process for the Air Force- I believe it's one of those few communities that have to condition someone to be ready to kill in the Air Force. I really don't think the officers and NCOs of the Air Force ever get conditioned to think about mortality in warfare- until they get to a few select communities. I think we need some of it in the RPA community (minus all of the stupid rules and words and elbow pointing). I can't speak to the Navy OCS process, but I know they have Marine DIs, and I imagine there is a level of "you'll drown at sea and get your entire crew killed if you suck". I could be wrong though.

 

[RobLyman]

You're telling us Seahawk pilots don't know the pain of flying low altitude without AC?

The Seahawks I flew had AC. It may not have worked well, but they had AC. From my perspective, having flown both, the Black Hawk is more brutal from a heat standpoint. The damn thing is painted dark enough green that it should just be black. Preflighting in the summer REQUIRES gloves to not burn your hands.

The Seahawk did have bigger fuel tanks. THAT is something that as an older pilot I am glad we don't have. At this point in my career, ESSS birds are not my preferred platform.

 

[Sonog]

The Seahawks I flew had AC. It may not have worked well, but they had AC. From my perspective, having flown both, the Black Hawk is more brutal from a heat standpoint. The damn thing is painted dark enough green that it should just be black. Preflighting in the summer REQUIRES gloves to not burn your hands.

The Seahawk did have bigger fuel tanks. THAT is something that as an older pilot I am glad we don't have. At this point in my career, ESSS birds are not my preferred platform.

I totally didn't think about the paint color differences, makes sense!

 

[PMPT]

Hi all,

I closely monitor this site and Flyingsquadron (AF equivalent). On flyingsquadron, lots of the experienced jets guys tell tale after tale of old dudes (28+) not being able to hack jets pretty much because of their age and being too old. Is this also the same thought on the Navy side?

I winged at 29 and did just fine.

 

[PMPT]

What is “tracking jets”? Is this tracking a jet??

View attachment 36143

looks more like a high aspect snapshot to me

 

[codys995]

Based on this thread it sounds like it's been pretty well established that age alone has little to no factor for selections. On a similar topic, what if you are you in the higher age bracket (28+) with a wife, maybe add a kid in there? Are those factors that are taken into account when selections are being made (primarily for jets)?

 

[Brett327]

Based on this thread it sounds like it's been pretty well established that age alone has little to no factor for selections. On a similar topic, what if you are you in the higher age bracket (28+) with a wife, maybe add a kid in there? Are those factors that are taken into account when selections are being made (primarily for jets)?

No

 

[TF7325]

Based on this thread it sounds like it's been pretty well established that age alone has little to no factor for selections. On a similar topic, what if you are you in the higher age bracket (28+) with a wife, maybe add a kid in there? Are those factors that are taken into account when selections are being made (primarily for jets)?

Edit: No to your question. However, if you want the best family life, go maritime. All of my jet friends are gone a lot. Workups, dets, deployment on the boat with little to no service or internet to reach out back home.

 

[Brett327]

Edit: No to your question. However, if you want the best family life, go maritime. All of my jet friends are gone a lot. Workups, dets, deployment on the boat with little to no service or internet to reach out back home.

Weird, all my VP friends hate their community. In all seriousness, days spent at home shouldn't be the primary consideration when selecting a community.

 

[nittany03]

looks more like a high aspect snapshot to me

Wasn’t it later established that said Red Ripper actually busted training rules to take that guns shot?

 

[HuggyU2]

In all seriousness, days spent at home shouldn't be the primary consideration when selecting a community.

When the U-2 TDY rate was through the roof, that was a major reason a number of applicants didn't apply. Same thing for AFSOC. That was much of the reason divorce rates were so high then also.

"Lifestyle" in a community is an important consideration... and I'd say "days spent at home" is a "lifestyle factor".

 

[MIDNJAC]

Wasn’t it later established that said Red Ripper actually busted training rules to take that guns shot?

Rippers have always been the Napoleon dynamite of Oceana. Checkmates made a notable entry into that competition when they had a dual midair and quadruple ejection, but it was quickly overshadowed by some stupid ripper antic.

 

[Gatordev]

Rippers have always been the Napoleon dynamite of Oceana. Checkmates made a notable entry into that competition when they had a dual midair and quadruple ejection, but it was quickly overshadowed by some stupid ripper antic.

I did my Mid cruise with the Rippers (ashore). We didn't fly with them because someone drilled a hole into one of the airframes and punctured a fuel tank. That led to all of their aircraft being down and torn apart to inspect them to make sure it hadn't happened to any others.

I believe it was either the XO or CO of -213 that said to us, "Yeah, we can give you a ride. Our aircraft actually fly."

 

[nittany03]

It's funny how every community and every base always has That Squadron. Sometimes the identity of which one it is changes, but there's always That Squadron everyone else points and laughs at.

 

[HSMPBR]

It’s not fair, but it is amusing how That Squadron can pull it together and turn it around and perform really well for a long time, but as soon as they screw something up it’s right back to being That Squadron.

They’re like the bridge builder who, after building hundreds of bridges, is only known for that one time with the goat.