NEWS This is US Navy... We Fly?

[Hopeful Hoya]

Do you know how expensive it would be to 'escalate' things with China? You like your iPhone, iPod, MacBook, tablet, or anything else you currently own?

We won't escalate shit with China anytime soon.

Poor phrasing on my part. By escalate, I meant that by having assets operating in a contested environment, there's a chance that something happens (unintentional bumping as Brett said or a bad intercept al la the Hainan Incident) that sends us past the stage of chest thumping or saber rattling. Not saying it would result in open conflict (I don't believe that it would), but I was saying that these situations have the potential to develop past the point that both parties wanted.

 

[Swanee]

Poor phrasing on my part. By escalate, I meant that by having assets operating in a contested environment, there's a chance that something happens (unintentional bumping as Brett said or a bad intercept al la the Hainan Incident) that sends us past the stage of chest thumping or saber rattling. Not saying it would result in open conflict (I don't believe that it would), but I was saying that these situations have the potential to develop past the point that both parties wanted.

...

Read this one again.

I wouldn't hold my breath. Like I said before, this kind of thing is happening all the time and has been ongoing for decades. Nothing to see here, move it along.

 

[Hopeful Hoya]

Fair enough, heading back into my lane.

 

[Catmando]

Long ago during Vietnam, our guys would sometimes cut the corner (before GPS/INS) too close, going from the Gulf to Cubi. If they did, they would always have a few rounds of AAA shot at them from the Paracel Islands, just North of the Spratly Islands, by the Red Chinese.

Obviously, an act of war. However we were preoccupied elsewhere. And no one ever knows where escalation might end with guys with nukes. No harm, no foul I suppose. (But still... I would have loved to drop a few CBUs on them. Shoot at me; I shoot at you. Although sometimes, ROE may save the world.)

 

[NavyBlu]

We've done/do our share of Right of Transit Passage shenanigans. Flying in the Aegean Sea through these tiny (< 1nm) passages we crossed the extended centerline of an active runway in the goo.
How did I know? I looked out the port side and saw the approach end lights and the Greek dude screaming over the radio was a subtle clue too.

Don't mean to pry but were you perhaps in an F-14? I had an interesting conversation with a former Naval Aviator a while back and he told me some of his stories, one of which sounds very similar to yours. Who knows maybe you knew each other.

 

[Catmando]

Don't mean to pry but were you perhaps in an F-14? I had an interesting conversation with a former Naval Aviator a while back and he told me some of his stories, one of which sounds very similar to yours. Who knows maybe you knew each other.

No, and no problem. My reference was to when I flew F-4s. The F-14s had INS although it drifted. But they should have been able to avoid the Paracels if the so desired. Maybe they did not, so desire.

Back in the day, that route was flown by a multitude of aircraft, coming and going. Because the F-4 had no navigation over water except dead reckoning (and hoping after a long leg to finally see towering Q on the horizon, indicating land), we were supposed to fly wing on A-6s or A-7s who supposedly had rudimentary and questionable navigation to get us there. But such plans don't always work out.

I have flown that alone, DR once or twice, and not only managed to avoid the AAA of the Paracels, but thankfully saw the CBs over the Philippines, well before picking up Cubi Pt's TACAN.

Back in the day, it was pretty standard if you flew close to the Paracel Islands, be it in an F-4 or an F-14 or anything, you could be assured to be shot at. It was a standard briefing for us, and it happened many times, although it never made the news.

 

[MIDNJAC]

I guess Farsi island should be very happy that USN jets have GPS aided INS now, as should be the international community that actually seems to care if we fly over their "territorial waters" or land