The Warrants have arrived

[plc67]

My computer thinks in incomplete sentences. I was under the distinct impression the Army was/is quite happy with the Warrant Officer program. My experience is far from current, however.

 

[Oh-58Ddriver]

Big Army and warrants are happy with it. Hell our warrants are getting bonuses that make their salary equal to if not greater than their RLO counterparts. Then Big Army sits around and scratches their head and wonders why all the O-3s are getting out.

Two words: Cheap labor.

If you think its not a money issue, you are sorely mistaken. And Brett, I agree you cant compare the two programs.....yet.

 

[steeleshark2]

It is going to be interesting to see how the navy is going to shape this program. We are still in the testing phase. It is not a guarantee
that this is going to continue after this year.

 

[BigIron]

That's if the CO actually went joint after his DH tour. From what I've seen, at least half don't go joint before, they do it after.

In the future, I think you are going to see a lot more Joint tours post DH instead of in a post command tour.

 

[robav8r]

In the future, I think you are going to see a lot more Joint tours post DH instead of in a post command tour.

It's already happening in VP. If you are the #1 EP DH, you're going to a joint job.

 

[bert]

That trend is one of the things that helped influence me to redesignate. It seemed that HSC at least was moving towards "let's see him take one of those jobs first, then punch his ticket".

 

[stepintoliquid]

the army warrant officer program has had me real interested. it seems to offer much more flying time than anything the marines could offer...

 

[bunk22]

Bunk -- Skippers will only get one joint tour before they start their CO/XO tour. They might spend a year of that at school getting JPME 1 and/or 2 and then a minimum of 24 months in a joint coded billet. If they flew during their third tour (super JO/ CAG staff), that leaves only one tour that they didn't fly.

Then he had war college and one joint tour prior to becoming XO/CO with pathetic flight time for a CO. HMy first CO's rarely left the cockpit, reason why they had great flight time and were experienced aviators.

 

[blackbart22]

Historical note: Ten years before Brownshoe's time, there was a route for enlisted men to get their wings and commission. They took a college equivalency test, flight physical, an aptitude test and an interview. About one in ten that applied made the program, and of course a third of them washed out. Some did okay. Steve Pless was in my preflight class and that Georgia boy done real good.

 

[jerky1280]

This is so very true, at least from what I saw in the COD community. Being the best pilot really meant nothing as far as FITREPs go. Hell, that extends all the way to the front office now. With all the joint tours or requirements, we are getting skippers with less experience in the cockpit. A recent skipper was just bad in the cockpit. Someone mentioned something about some people aren't meant to be CO holds true as well. It seems many a CO that I've come across as late weren't meant to be CO but did what they had to do to get there. Take the hard tours, do the joint, etc. Didn't make them good leaders, just good enough on paper to get the selection. Cockpit skills meant nothing. So just coming in to fly, not having to worry about the rest of the BS I think is great.

I would make the argument that a CO needs management skills, not necessarily stick skills. Yes, he needs to know how an aircraft operates to be able to make the big decisions, but doesn't necessarily need to be the most proficient pilot in the squadron.

I think that the warrant pilot program is a great idea, but I think that too many people will end up going the "commissioned" route not realizing what they're getting into a management track and not a operating track, leading to jealousy and cynicism. The Coast Guard doesn't have warrant pilots, but I'd be pissed if they took up all the flight hours.

 

[KBayDog]

Steve Pless was in my preflight class and that Georgia boy done real good.

That's a bit of an understatement.

 

[East]

Well said

I think that the warrant pilot program is a great idea, but I think that too many people will end up going the "commissioned" route not realizing what they're getting into a management track and not a operating track, leading to jealousy and cynicism....

Well said

 

[robav8r]

. . . but I think that too many people will end up going the "commissioned" route not realizing what they're getting into a management track and not a operating track, leading to jealousy and cynicism.

It's been said before, but it needs to be said again. ALL Warrant Officers in the Navy are COMMISSIONED OFFICERS.

 

[bunk22]

I would make the argument that a CO needs management skills, not necessarily stick skills. Yes, he needs to know how an aircraft operates to be able to make the big decisions, but doesn't necessarily need to be the most proficient pilot in the squadron.

The CO of a squadron should be the most knowledgable, most experienced pilot in that squadron, hands down. So you are wrong in that regards, the CO needs those stick skills, period. On top of that, the CO should have good mangagement and leadership skills as well. All three are hard to come buy, often a CO has one but not the others. It's very rare to have all 3. I have yet to see it. I've seen one skipper have 2 of the three and unfortunetly, more than not, I've seen a CO or two missing all three. When you get some experience in the fleet, your opinion may very well change.

 

[kmac]

The CO of a squadron should be the most knowledgable, most experienced pilot in that squadron, hands down. So you are wrong in that regards, the CO needs those stick skills, period. On top of that, the CO should have good mangagement and leadership skills as well. All three are hard to come buy, often a CO has one but not the others. It's very rare to have all 3. I have yet to see it. I've seen one skipper have 2 of the three and unfortunetly, more than not, I've seen a CO or two missing all three. When you get some experience in the fleet, your opinion may very well change.

Piggy backing... being Skipper requires tough decisions to be made. One of those is of course whether to fly or not after a mishap. Having experience in the platform (and in flight itself) lends itself well to being able to rationally come to a decision. Beyond management, even the daily issues of manpower, operations, supply, and "general problem solving" vary greatly from one platform to another. Having that stick time really puts it all into perspective and provides a historical backdrop to the decisions made. So yeah, I agree with Bunk.