The Steve Wilkins Memorial Surface Warfare Officer (SWO) Thread

[Pistol719]

That's all well and good, but what if your judge of character tells you your boss (CO/XO/DH) is the opposite of those good things? You can do all the things you mentioned, as well as find ways to "resist" their "leadership techniques" (and by resist, I mean SERE resist. Those that know what I mean, know what I mean), but if at the end of the day your CO/XO/DH doesn't take inputs from his O's, dictates edicts rather than makes decisions based on reason, and/or is generally a pain in the ass, your life still sucks.

Are all ships like this? No, of course not, but there are plenty that are and it sucks for everyone. Yes, even the aviators.

LOL NO doubt ... I agree with what your saying.. I've had my share of bosses like that both Chiefs and Civilian Managers. There isn't much to be said if the upper echelon has Q-tips in their ears =/ I guess what I was getting as was there is that hope of eventually getting to that position and being different then what you have observed..

Example... Going through A school I thought most of the instructors and BDO's were assholes.. This is partially due to the fact I was 17,18 years old yes.. But ultimately I felt that it was a bit in excess. Fast forward 5 years later I was a NMT instructor at STG school. I held martial law when needed, other times I treated my sailors with the respect and courtesy as I would if they were on a ship with me... Even to this day I still get random facebook invites from some of my former students and I was only there 10 months.

Ultimately I suppose it's just how much bullshit you can put up with initially to get to the level of being able to make a change.

 

[Uncle Fester]

I think you optimistic "change from within" dudes are overestimating your ability to swallow bullshit for the requisite years until you reach command. But whatever, do your thing, dare to dream, baby.

On the other hand...every once in a while in the SWO house, you get to do some cool shit.

 

[m0tbaillie]

This is one of those instances where someone who has never been on a deployment shouldn't say anything about how easy they are. Incirlik is certainly not the boat but the enlisted maintenance troops like FMRAM worked their asses off to make sure the we had working Prowlers to fly over Iraq. And it sure as hell ain't home, at least for the vast majority of us.

I was only commenting on it because I've been to Incirlik numerous times (>dozen) and it's pretty well accommodated like almost any of the other bigger bases in Europe.

 

[pmasters]

Man, you aviators LOVE Surface Warfare, huh?


Just read what my post started. Seems like some pretty good perspectives of how bad SWO life can be. Still happy with my decision to go SWO (turned down SNFO for it).

PS, those are some enticing-sounding bribes...

 

[skim]

again, if you solely base your opinions on a website, you're wrong...

 

[PropStop]

Change won't really come to the SWO community until it accepts a couple of different things:

One, it's counter-productive and dangerous to deprive your officers of sleep. Just having your crew well-rested makes an amazing difference in performance and morale; and as the Air side knows, performance when even somewhat sleep-deprived (let alone, a couple days without it) is equivalent to performance when drunk.

Two, it's the responsibility of the leadership (DH, XO, Captain) to make sure that the crew has ample time to sleep and relax. You'd be amazed how obvious that seems, and yet many SWO leaders would roll their eyes and make jerk-off motions if someone told them that. If leadership accepted that crew rest / crew day isn't a "not to interfere with work" thing, but an absolute, the benefits would roll downhill. Stupid little tasking starts sliding, and then everyone starts realizing how unimportant that stupid little tasking was.

Third, peer pressure should be reoriented toward healthy directions. I once got "taken aside" by a fellow Divvo (...yeah) because my knocking off at 1600 every day was making everyone look bad. I should be sticking around until 1800 or until the XO leaves, like them. That sort of idiocy rolls downhill and contributes to the venomous hate of the community.

Wow, for a minute there I thought you were talking about the P-3 community.

 

[MasterBates]

I thought it was HSL.. But we got to sleep there.

 

[PropStop]

I thought it was HSL.. But we got to sleep there.

I think our community pushes the crew rest thing a lot more than it should. When OPSOs start trying to sea lawyer the crew rest rules for training flights you know your community has lost sight of the forest for the trees.

But hey, NATOPS does say that it is not a substitute for sound judgment. And we all know how sound our readiness system is...

 

[Flash]

I was only commenting on it because I've been to Incirlik numerous times (>dozen) and it's pretty well accommodated like almost any of the other bigger bases in Europe.

I know exactly why you commented on it, but when you start making comments about deployments you really have no clue what you are talking about. I was trying to be nice but not coming out and saying it, but STFU.

 

[exhelodrvr]

Two observations:
Somewhat ironic, with all the negative comments about the SWO community (which seem to be fairly accurate, from my experience) in this thread, that several months ago when a midshipman who had wanted aviation didn't get it, he was basically told to stop whining. (Don't know if it was the same posters or not.)

Is part of the difference between the two communities that, as a group, the people in the SWO community are not as talented as the people in the aviation community? That seems like the elephant in the room no one wants to talk about.

 

[BigRed389]

Two observations:
Somewhat ironic, with all the negative comments about the SWO community (which seem to be fairly accurate, from my experience) in this thread, that several months ago when a midshipman who had wanted aviation didn't get it, he was basically told to stop whining. (Don't know if it was the same posters or not.)

Is part of the difference between the two communities that, as a group, the people in the SWO community are not as talented as the people in the aviation community? That seems like the elephant in the room no one wants to talk about.

And WTF is "talent" exactly?

 

[exhelodrvr]

And WTF is "talent" exactly?

Ill-defined, I suppose some combination of intelligence and ability to get things done.

Clearly there are exceptions in both communities. But from what I have seen, for people who are physically qualified, aviation tends to be a preferred choice over the surface community. That means that people who are ranked higher (whatever the "ranking" is based on) will tend towards aviation.

 

[Pugs]

Is part of the difference between the two communities that, as a group, the people in the SWO community are not as talented as the people in the aviation community? That seems like the elephant in the room no one wants to talk about.

I think "not as talented" is a bit disingenuous but I do believe that there is a significant difference in the nature of a person who is attracted to Naval Air vs. the SWO/Sub community.

I work with several former bubbleheads and SWO types and it is amusing to watch them beat a dead horse long after they have all the information needed to make a decision. They seem very deliberate and slow moving in their thought process, whether that is their nature or the nurture of a career that moved at 15 knots I do not know.

Perhaps it even happens in those that went Naval Air. When I was in VT-10 they drafted three guys for jets. None of them survived the training track to VT-86. So were they incapable of adapting or simply unmotivated? Again I don't know but only one redesignated and that was to AMO and not SWO. The other two got out.

 

[Gatordev]

Is part of the difference between the two communities that, as a group, the people in the SWO community are not as talented as the people in the aviation community? That seems like the elephant in the room no one wants to talk about.

I don't think so. There's plenty of sharp SWOs out there. Just as a whole, the community expends a lot of energy with little forward momentum. I've know plenty of knucklehead pilots just like I've known plenty of knucklehead SWOs (divo and DH alike).

 

[BlackBearHockey]

The people who I've seen commission into each community haven't been brighter than one another, but they are almost strikingly different. I have seen some wonderfully sharp MIDN head the SWO route, but they are very different than their aviation counterparts. There's a huge difference in someone who finds the bridge exciting vs. someone who watched Top Gun too many times. Not bad or good, just different.

I think what does it is that the SWO community catches all the people who want to do their five and dive. Again, not a bad thing, but if someone comes into NROTC and wants to spend the shortest amount of time in the Navy, they'll be heading SWO. Surely there are those who want their ratings and the Nukes who want the money/job outlook, but I don't think in the same numbers as the SWO community. I asked an ENS on my last cruise what she wanted to do in the Navy, her response was, "to get out of it." I've yet to hear that from anyone else.