Not a huge shock.
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The MIF monster
- Thread starter Malice 1
- Start date
Not a huge shock.
RetreadRand said:
No, but once a habit pattern is established to continually ensure you have an airplane that flys, gas to complete the mission, and knowledge of where the hell you are, there's more to do. Trying to get the 5 in IGPs, the student is focusing too much effort on one thing when there is a hell of a lot more to do. I wanted my students to focus on the more important things in flying.
Much like when I would get a treatise on icing but a blank stare when asked for the NATOPS procedures for inadvertent icing.
I took some of this advice and applied it to my flight today, and decided to be a little more proactive with the small stuff. I am hereby changing my name from "MIF monster" to "MIFbuster". Thanks guys...
About the whole MPTS arguement: The system is always gonna be subjective. It's the nature of the beast. I dunno if the IP's have more text than us student's do, but I think the CTS writeups are pretty weak. They don't clearly explain what is required to get a 2, 3, 4, etc... Hence the purpose of this thread. All in all, I think the system works great. Have I gotten screwed out of a couple good grades? Maybe. Have I gotten a few 5's that I haven't deserved? definatley...
I like the concept that 5's are awarded if you do it as well/better than the IP you're flying with.
Bunk- I've been running 8.30's @92 with 2.0's on a 40shot. I just increased to 100. I'm comin to getcha! (If you wanna talk drags anymore take it to PM's. This thread is pretty good)
About the whole MPTS arguement: The system is always gonna be subjective. It's the nature of the beast. I dunno if the IP's have more text than us student's do, but I think the CTS writeups are pretty weak. They don't clearly explain what is required to get a 2, 3, 4, etc... Hence the purpose of this thread. All in all, I think the system works great. Have I gotten screwed out of a couple good grades? Maybe. Have I gotten a few 5's that I haven't deserved? definatley...
I like the concept that 5's are awarded if you do it as well/better than the IP you're flying with.
Bunk- I've been running 8.30's @92 with 2.0's on a 40shot. I just increased to 100. I'm comin to getcha! (If you wanna talk drags anymore take it to PM's. This thread is pretty good)
MasterBates
Well-Known Member
Isn't there some sort of AW rule that says threads MUST drift?
Maybe there is. I just wanted to enjoy ONE SINGLE internet discussion in my life that didn't end up being about drag racing. I frequent enough car boards.
Sub King
Member
While I agree with you Malice that it would be nice to have system that delineates the differences between 2's,3's,4's, and 5's.....my guess is that it would be too difficult for an IP to grade based on confined parameters nor would you want them too. I personally have thought that in some instances I felt like I should have deserved a 5 but actually got a 4. On the flip side there are other times where I felt like I did horrible but still was MIF'd or sometimes still above MIF. IMHO I think subjective grading helps students more than hurts them even if they don't want to admit it.
Pretty sure its called CTS... and is in the back of the MPTS book.
The CTS just tells you what a 4 is, correct? Maybe, IP's should attempt to grade appropriately and not try to game the system. Obviously I could be out of line on this one, I'm only half way through the FITU and have yet to truly grasp this grading system.
Sub King
Member
Yes sir....I agree and I'm aware of the CTS, however as Bunk mentions it only explains what (G/4) performance is and even then its still quite general in explanation. I think you missed my point, or maybe I made it poorly. Although it would be nice to know exactly what constitutes say a 3 vice 5 performance, I'm glad that IP's don't grade in such black and white terms as I would think that students would have a harder time adhering to such standards. In any case, enough with the symantics...study hard and the grades should come to those students in wanting.
Its been a while since i looked in one of those little green books and I thought it might have showed more then just what a 4 was (and I guess i missed the post a few up).
There seemed to be a few different types of graders in primary/advanced including (but not limited to)... those who MIF'd because thats was the darker shaded color boxes on the grade cards (or were MIF masters), those who were MPTS Nazis who would ding you if you exceeded CTS even momentarily on 2hr flight and those who didn't use the grading CTS critera at all when deciding which numbers to give you. It would have been nice to have some consistency between the way the different IPs graded.
You can't really control what type of grader the IP is, so just fly your best and try not to worry about grades as long as your sheets stay white.
I was told in primary by more than a few IPs that the CO of my squadron said "no 5's on inflight checks". He beleived that was an expected item and should be a straightup 3 or 4 if you do them. I don't know 1 person that got a 5 on it the entire time I was there. I felt that was pretty much BS, because if you are giving them every 15 mins on the button, you should get one. That's above MPTS standards so therefore...
It seems there are quite a bit of inconsistencies between MPTS and what's REALLY graded in Primary. Sometimes you might NAIL 4 maneuvers and get only 2 5's becasue the IP "doesn't ever give more than 2 5's on a hop". It happens. But it all balances out with that one flight you get from Santa Claus....
It seems there are quite a bit of inconsistencies between MPTS and what's REALLY graded in Primary. Sometimes you might NAIL 4 maneuvers and get only 2 5's becasue the IP "doesn't ever give more than 2 5's on a hop". It happens. But it all balances out with that one flight you get from Santa Claus....
Well, if you "nailed" it, that's a 4. You met CTS, beyond that, it's up to the IP gods. What's amusing is to see how everyone gets worked up about how it's NOT a BA/A/AA grading system, but then everyone complains about not getting 5's because they perceive their maneuver as "better" than the "average" MIF. A 5 does not equal a higher NSS, necessarily. Sure, it will help, but if you consistently crush the ATS and get 5s every flight, but take forever to get to a 4 on the landing pattern and FFLs, then you're below the MIF of 4 "curve" because you have more grades that are lower than a 5 than at a 5.
So, let me say it one more time: it's not the 5 that pushes your NSS up, it's how quickly you make MIF OR HIGHER in a block that pushes your score up. The 5's just pad the score as long as you're doing everything else on track or better.
This is never more evident than when you go on the road and everything but 3 items is a 4. Guess what, unless you're flying w/ Santa Claus or are a Porn star, your NSS is going to come down.
I am actually one who prefers MPTS over the "old" system. When I asked "what is average", the answer was "you'll know it when you see it." At least now we have some level of guidance on what a 4 is and that provides some degree of standardization.
Yes, there is the complaint of no guidance on what makes a 2, 3 or 5. Plus, many CTS are very vague. And most people miss that grading a 4 allows "deviations outside CTS...provided they are brief, minor, and do not affect safety of flight." It would be nice if squadrons were able to dedicate some regular wardroom time for IPs to discuss grading criteria for standardization.
Plus, the Navy MPTS guidance is not very user friendly and takes time and effort from the IP to understand all the nuances. Something too many IPs don't do, unfortunately. It is just too easy to fall back on BA, A, AA.
Did I mention MPTS is an improvement? There are problems, but it really is an improvement.
Yes, there is the complaint of no guidance on what makes a 2, 3 or 5. Plus, many CTS are very vague. And most people miss that grading a 4 allows "deviations outside CTS...provided they are brief, minor, and do not affect safety of flight." It would be nice if squadrons were able to dedicate some regular wardroom time for IPs to discuss grading criteria for standardization.
Plus, the Navy MPTS guidance is not very user friendly and takes time and effort from the IP to understand all the nuances. Something too many IPs don't do, unfortunately. It is just too easy to fall back on BA, A, AA.
Did I mention MPTS is an improvement? There are problems, but it really is an improvement.