Tattoo questions

[Ken_gone_flying]

Didn't say you had to be stellar to be a divo/cpo, Ken. (Hell, I did it!)

My remark meant that anyone who had filled either billet for more than a fortnight would understand MasterBates' point. He wasn't busting on E-1's or their wives, just saying (correctly) that that is where 90% of problem children are.

You guys need to unbunch your panties...

Look you guys, I'm just trying to keep the stereotypes (and thats exactly what they are) to a minimum. I understand that 90% of liberty trouble comes from the enlisted ranks, I've been in the navy. But 90% of that comes from E-1 to E-3 personnel, becasue they are kids, mostly 18-20. You have to expect that people that young are going to make mistakes. I know you all did when you were that young, I did. In 5 years in the navy, I can recall many, many guys getting in trouble because of drinking incidents or not paying their bills or fighting, but they were all E-4 and below. I never once saw an E-5 or above in trouble with the command like that. Now I know that it does happen, but just want to point out that most of it comes from the guys that aren't old enough to drink yet. So I think it would be a more fair statement to say that the younger guys / gals get into most of the trouble and not just group it into the enlisted group.

 

[MasterBates]

Lets just say I can count the O-1 thru O-3s that I have seen get in trouble drinking on one hand. And I don't need all of my fingers.

The majority of that trouble comes from junior enlisted. Be it financial, legal, drinking, not showing up to work, etc.

Just how it is. There is a definite maturity difference between MOST 21 year old E-3/4s and MOST O-1s.

 

[Ken_gone_flying]

Lets just say I can count the O-1 thru O-3s that I have seen get in trouble drinking on one hand. And I don't need all of my fingers.

The majority of that trouble comes from junior enlisted. Be it financial, legal, drinking, not showing up to work, etc.

Just how it is. There is a definite maturity difference between MOST 21 year old E-3/4s and MOST O-1s.

How many 18-21 year old JO's do you see in the fleet? I bet you don't need all your fingers to count that one either. Thats my point exactly. With age, comes maturity, in most cases.

 

[MasterBates]

I was a 21 year old JO. As is Joboy. There are more..

Lets say 22-25 year old E4/5 vs 22-25 year old O-1/2/3..

Still the same. There is on average a large maturity difference between Os and Es at the junior-midstage level.

 

[Ken_gone_flying]

I agree that the average JO is more mature than the average E-4/E-5. Just wanted to make sure and point out that 90% of command enlisted problems come from E-4 and below. Its an age thing, not necessarily an enlisted vs. officer thing. Also, there are very few Ensigns under age 22, very few JG's under age 24, and very few LT's under age 26.

 

[Praying4OCS]

KGF, when you have done the counseling, reprimanding, and general management for a division of 20+ men from age 18 to 49, get back to me on that.

MB, I was just busting your chops a little. TRUST me I completley knew what you meant. Nose, I might only be an E-5 but, I have been in that leadership position. As a matter of fact, I am right now. I am currently the LPO for my squadrons division of transient personel (X & I Div as we call it). Right now I have 35 guys and at least 75% are off the boats due to "not being able to cope" or U/A and drug problems. For a submarine squadron I have the largest division on the water front. My CMC has told me numerous times, that I'm dealing with thhe hardest part of being in a leadership role.

As far as the rank at which I deal with, I even have Firsts and Chiefs that I manage. Most of the guys in the sub force make rank very quick. But, rank doesn't always equate to maturity. Different situations but simialar problems.

 

[BACONATOR]

I agree that the average JO is more mature than the average E-4/E-5. Just wanted to make sure and point out that 90% of command enlisted problems come from E-4 and below. Its an age thing, not necessarily an enlisted vs. officer thing. Also, there are very few Ensigns under age 22, very few JG's under age 24, and very few LT's under age 26.

Maybe so, but MasterBates' point is still valid. As a 21 y/o JO, I can CLEARLY see the difference in maturity levels between junior sailors (many of which are OLDER than me!) and myself or my peers (those who are 21-23) and it is significant.

It IS NOT just an age thing. I am VERY different from some E-3s who are my age. It is the lifestyle difference, our different responsibilities, and beyond that, our life experience, the way we were brought up etc etc. And this isn't ALL sailors, but a number far greater than comparable JOs.

It doesn't make the Enlisted sailor "bad", it's just the way it is. Statistics are statistics, you don't always have to justify them.

 

[WheelsUpHeelsUp]

Lets just say I can count the O-1 thru O-3s that I have seen get in trouble drinking on one hand. And I don't need all of my fingers.

The majority of that trouble comes from junior enlisted. Be it financial, legal, drinking, not showing up to work, etc.

Just how it is. There is a definite maturity difference between MOST 21 year old E-3/4s and MOST O-1s.

I'll buy that but I'll say the one who self destructed the most that I saw was a Lt.

He came from big money (his father owned a WELL known truck rental company)

He got busted for coke. (needless to say he was grounded immediately)

Proceeded to break an E-3's arm and hand when it appeared something was going on with his wife.

While waiting for his fate he decided to go UA until found a couple weeks later.

Lost all military benefits for his family, he had a severely retarded son who needed constant attention.

Shame, I liked the guy, he was popular with the troops but he went down the tubes, like now!

 

[phrogpilot73]

...it might be getting drunk at the strip club 100m outside the front gate.

Ahhh, Tobies... Can honestly say I've only been once. And it was scary.

 

[Afterburner76]

Call me elitist..

ELITIST!!!

haha... you know we luv ya MB!

 

[bunk22]

My, my, my ... I guess I hit a soft spot, yea-as???

I sent you a PM to ameliorate any differences of opinion between the two of us on this ridiculous subject. I thought that was it ... Officers and gentlemen and all .... and then I witness your personal and public attack on me.

My generalized STFU post (above) on the subject of tattoos had nothing to do with YOU personally ... evidently you think it's all about ... you??? On the contrary, it was an attempt to get back to what's important and what's worthy of discussion and disagreement.

You owe me an apology; and a public one, since your personal attack on my character was public ... as you didn't have the common sense or personal integrity to take it private, like I did.

You attempted to take shots in general to prove you were right, others were wrong. Can't hide that fact. The men dying in Iraq, the airline comment. It was pointed to a few of us so you didn't have to point a finger. It wasn't your character that was hurt but the ego. I wasn't going to let that post stand without a say. So my apologies, in public, for what you perceived to be a character attack.

 

[Mumbles]

I'll buy that but I'll say the one who self destructed the most that I saw was a Lt.

He came from big money (his father owned a WELL known truck rental company)

He got busted for coke. (needless to say he was grounded immediately)

Proceeded to break an E-3's arm and hand when it appeared something was going on with his wife.

While waiting for his fate he decided to go UA until found a couple weeks later.

Lost all military benefits for his family, he had a severely retarded son who needed constant attention.

Shame, I liked the guy, he was popular with the troops but he went down the tubes, like now!

Sounds real similiar to a P-3 pilot @ NUW a few years ago. After this guy pops pos on a random urinalysis for ecstasy, he claims someone slipped him a mickey while at a party in Seattle. So, he's stashed at the wing while the PI is ongoing. As it turns out, the DEA had been watching him for a while, and had a warrant to stop him as he was coming back across the border from one of his many trips to Vancouver, and he had a couple hundred hits of X taped to his chest. Evidently he bragged to the narc that when the border cops saw his officer ID, they would just wave him through without a search. Last I heard, he's still @ Leavenworth.

 

[Harrier Dude]

Is he really still in the slam? I saw this story in Marine Corps Times a long time ago. He definitely deserves it if he is.

 

[badger16]

View attachment 5758

I dunno, maybe I'm just an exception to the rule... but I don't think so. I've come too far to have only just 'beat the odds' that many times. This is a different day and age. Leadership and excellence are more than skin deep.

When did you get the Chia pet tattoo? Your chest looks like a mink coat!

 

[Afterburner76]

Don't be a hater... I take Magnum P.I. pills! haha