SU-27 First Flight in KRFD

[JTH]

Never understood FFA reg's on demilitarized aircraft and the requirement that ejection seats must be removed. Seems as though in an aircraft such as the SU-27 ejection seats would be a nice form of insurance. What's up with the lousy climb performance?? 64,000ft/min? thats it? that is going vertical at 720mph up to 12 miles?

 

[pilot_man]

Yes, but fighting a SU-27 would be a whole lot different than fighting an F-21, or Hunter. I think the benefits would be worth the cost.

Maintenance experience? No, but they do take part in beauty contests.



Tactical jets are going to be expensive to a private owner no matter what the type, but the relative simplicity and availability of the Hunter and Skyhawk is going to make it a lot less expensive than other comparable types for a private company to operate. The availability largely comes from several countries who operated them for a long time while maintaining them very well. The Swiss didn't retire their last Hunters until 1994 and the Israeli's still fly A-4's, though they have gotten rid of the bulk of their fleet since the 90's. The same with their Kfir's and Swedish Drakens, which were specifically designed to be simple enough to be maintained by conscripts. All of those countries did, and still do, an excellent job of maintaining their aircraft. Talking to the Grumman guys in St Augustine they said the F-5's we bought back from the Swiss were in better shape than any Navy ones they had ever seen.

 

[rrpilot]

Never understood FFA reg's on demilitarized aircraft and the requirement that ejection seats must be removed. Seems as though in an aircraft such as the SU-27 ejection seats would be a nice form of insurance. What's up with the lousy climb performance?? 64,000ft/min? thats it? that is going vertical at 720mph up to 12 miles?

From what I've read it's more a matter of the cost and availability of approved maintenance for the seats to be certified...not sure on the details of the process but I'm sure it's arduous and expensive!...

 

[Godspeed]

$5 million for a SU-27? Why have we been spending $25+ million for the T-45C??

 

[yak52driver]

Never understood FFA reg's on demilitarized aircraft and the requirement that ejection seats must be removed. Seems as though in an aircraft such as the SU-27 ejection seats would be a nice form of insurance. What's up with the lousy climb performance?? 64,000ft/min? thats it? that is going vertical at 720mph up to 12 miles?

With the right paperwork hot ejection seats can be installed in demilitarized aircraft. I know of one L-39 that had hot seats installed last year. I'll find out if the SU-27's have hot seats or not.

As I was coming out of ORD this afternoon Chicago approach handed me off to Rockford approach. About that time the SU-27 was up again talking to Rockford requesting a hold for the GPS 1 there. The pilot asked for permission to hold at 250 KIAS, then eventually shot the GPS approach.

 

[Flash]

Yes, but fighting a SU-27 would be a whole lot different than fighting an F-21, or Hunter. I think the benefits would be worth the cost.

Yeah, but I don't think people are aware of how much trouble it probably would be to keep an Su-27 in the air as an adversary aircraft in this country. The availability would probably suck and it's expense would be enormous. Think about it, would having an aircraft that flies 1.5 a month be a good investment for an adversary aircraft? It's not like there is a big open market for parts either, and the countries that own them aren't probably going to be very willing to give a western user a steady supply of them. There is good reason the aircraft are so 'cheap', and it ain't a good one.

 

[OscarMyers]

I couldn't see as an adversary but i do know the navy contracts a Mig-15 or 17(not sure which one it is) here at pax for TPS students. I see that buzzing around the base occasionally among the other flying oddities.

 

[Huggy Bear]

$5 million for a SU-27? Why have we been spending $25+ million for the T-45C??

For starters, probably the 20k+ pounds of gas compared to 3k per sortie.

 

[Stearmann4]

I find it interesting that the FAA and Homeland Security have been raising a stink about the legality of owning and flying certain WWII/Vietnam propeller driven warbirds, but there's an SU-27flying near Chicago?

 

[HuggyU2]

Pilot's a great guy I fly with, former F-15 pilot.

Are you speculating that Puck flew it, or did he tell you that?

 

[Gatordev]

Never understood FFA reg's on demilitarized aircraft and the requirement that ejection seats must be removed. Seems as though in an aircraft such as the SU-27 ejection seats would be a nice form of insurance. What's up with the lousy climb performance?? 64,000ft/min? thats it? that is going vertical at 720mph up to 12 miles?

While I was at the St. Louis airshow this year, there was a MiG-17 there. After having lunch at the crew hangar, he asked if we could help him load drop tanks on his aircraft. He was also explaining that the ejection seat was a retrofitted Russian seat w/ an AF sanctioned/donated rocket and chute. Apparently the AF packs and inspects the shoot as part of the PR gig (he was a former AF fighter dude).

So apparently they're not all removed, but rrpilot mentioned, they have to be serviced to be "allowed."

 

[nittany03]

I find it interesting that the FAA and Homeland Security have been raising a stink about the legality of owning and flying certain WWII/Vietnam propeller driven warbirds, but there's an SU-27flying near Chicago?

WHAT? You can fly a 747 with a fricking Commercial or ATP license and type rating, yet turn around, fly a P-51, and you're somehow "dangerous?" What a load of crap. Give them a type rating if you feel they need "specialized knowledge" to fly.

God help me from people who want to save me from myself.

 

[yak52driver]

Are you speculating that Puck flew it, or did he tell you that?

The email I recieved yesterday from a member of the project stated it was Puck flying. Back in June he told me there was going to be a Ukrainian pilot in the back during initial flights.

 

[Jim123]

God help me from people who want to save me from myself.

Thank you! I wish more people thought this way.

I find it interesting that the FAA and Homeland Security have been raising a stink about the legality of owning and flying certain WWII/Vietnam propeller driven warbirds, but there's an SU-27 flying near Chicago?

I agree with this in the sense that "big government" shouldn't be raising a stink about an Su-27 or any WW2/VN prop jobs; the existing system/regulations/laws already work fine!

 

[nittany03]

I wish more people thought this way.

Ecce:

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victim may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron’s cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.