Should I stay or should I go? Or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying And Love HSC.

[RedFive]

For the war we're most worried about adding F-35s and taking away unneeded utility helicopters makes sense.

I don't disagree at all. HS willingly gave up their capabilities and traded them in for a utility helicopter without any concern about their other missions. My question, which may simply end up being rhetorical due to its unanswerable nature is.....now what?

 

[thump]

What this boils down to is that HSC leadership has rendered themselves insignificant.

HSC wasn't "utilized for the missions they trained for" because those missions are either irrelevant or beyond the capabilities of an offshore helicopter without AAR.

Watching HSC spend a decade drooling over expensive niche systems like HDTS and FFW, begging for a radar when the Navy already has a helicopter with a radar, rolling aircraft in the dust trying to play Army - can't say I'm surprised to see any of this.

 

[Treetop Flyer]

Helicopter Shitshow Central, A Recapitulation:
HC gets the MH-60S instead of an updated CH-46.
HSL upgrades to a very capable MH-60R and becomes HSM.
HS jumps on the MH-60S, increases its capabilities tenfold (Hellfire/APKWS/M197/.50cal+7.62 mgs), and merges with HC, thus forming HSC.

Meanwhile, the smart folks at HSM are playing the long game. Somehow or another, HSM manages to get a foothold on the CVN while still maintaining their long-held position on the small boys. Now there are two helicopter squadrons on the CVN, but HSC isn't utilized for the missions they've trained for. Whether that's because the Air Boss' only concern is maintaining the SAR bird, or because of poor messaging about capabilities, I don't know. I believe it's a combination.

The Rub:
Today I get a text from a buddy waiting for the hotseat at the FRS in the middle of his CAT-other syllabus: The Navy's new plan for HSC is to reduce CVN squadrons by half and decrease their footprint on the CVN to a 3-plane DET in order to increase F-35 numbers. HSM will remain onboard in full.

I'm all for more F-35s, let there be no mistake that this is not my complaint. What this boils down to is that HSC leadership has rendered themselves insignificant. Through a series of events, they allowed the HSM community to bamboozle them off the CVN. HS's "bread and butter," the CVN -- stolen in plain sight by HSM. And the worst part is, HSC deserves it. I'm not even mad at HSM, HSC did it to themselves. HS should have bought a combination of Sierras and Romeos if it was really that essential to have both capabilities of the Fox/Hotel. For whatever reason, they ended up with the Sierra and made some poor decisions. Testing a RADAR on the Sierra and not going through with it. Taking on MQ-8 after HSM had already discarded it. Not effectively advertising the new Sierra capabilities to the fleet. Taking on ALL the missions and being "okay" instead of excelling at a few.

So now what? What's to become of HSC CVN? 3 plane dets? They will never, ever, ever take an armed section into combat with only 3 aircraft on the boat. Planeguard has to happen, we all know that. And God knows any helicopter is going to need a backup, preferably two. Meanwhile, HSC Expeditionary is still slogging it out on the LHD and is committed to support LCS -- will one of those platforms get taken from them? Sadly, a combined Sierra/Romeo squadron, a la HMLA, would be the most capable configuration, but the Navy will never get past the rice bowls to make it happen.

This is why HSC WTIs and FRS instructors jumped ship. This is why is it no longer necessary to follow the golden path to HSC DH.

TL;DR:
View attachment 26846

HSC doesn’t need to worry about doing cool overland stuff anymore because soon the plopters will be here. They can soon write point papers about how all they ever get to do is COD when they have such a capable aircraft that can be used in badass ways like the AF uses their plopters.

 

[wlawr005]

CSAR is still an AWF check in the box. I don't expect HSC to shed any mission tasks, just do them with a smaller footprint. LHD dets deploy with just two helos, so the concept is not foreign to the community.

What will be interesting to see is how the detachment is integrated into the air wing. If the whole squadron isn't deploying, where does the HSC CO go? Stay home like exped? If so, there's a lot of room for an O-4 det OIC to get pushed around on a carrier, especially by the HSM CO.

 

[RedFive]

CSAR is still an AWF check in the box. I don't expect HSC to shed any mission tasks, just do them with a smaller footprint. LHD dets deploy with just two helos, so the concept is not foreign to the community.

What will be interesting to see is how the detachment is integrated into the air wing. If the whole squadron isn't deploying, where does the HSC CO go? Stay home like exped? If so, there's a lot of room for an O-4 det OIC to get pushed around on a carrier, especially by the HSM CO.

LHD dets have been three bird dets for a while now, the purpose of which was to bring enough aircraft to handle SAR and play armed helo with the Marines. Presumably, this will be a copy of that on the CVN. HSC will no longer be in the air wing. Whether or not the CO/XO go underway remains to be seen, but the precedent for an O-4 to run a det like that has already been set.

Having 3 birds to run CSAR and Planeguard is going to be tough. On the LHD, the Marines have TRAP, so the Sierra isn't the only resource capable of recovery. Now you need all three Sierras FMC to run a section overland and keep a planeguard at the boat. Or...do the Romeos take on planeguard if not enough Sierras are FMC? Or do Romeos start training for CSAR? Then you have to ask yourself why we even have Sierras on the CVN.

It all goes back to HS making the decision to only adopt the Sierra. What they should do is give HSM those three Sierras and let HC be HC again.

 

[Brett327]

The Navy's new plan for HSC is to reduce CVN squadrons by half and decrease their footprint on the CVN to a 3-plane DET in order to increase F-35 numbers.

It’s also to make room for MQ-25, E-2D and for more Growlers, eventually.

They will never, ever, ever take an armed section into combat

So, no change to status quo then.
Sorry to pile on, but maybe this is correcting back to the baseline when HS just did SAR. Seems like your community’s leadership bit off more than they could chew and didn’t know how to integrate the Sierra’s capabilities into what the CSG needs. The deck space issue was going to come up eventually, and reducing HSC footprint was the least painful option for CNAF.

 

[HSMPBR]

HSM covers PG from time to time. HSM will not take on CSAR. HC should be HC again and that should happen even before FVL comes.

 

[RedFive]

your former community’s leadership

FIFY. But you're not piling on, I agree with you guys. It's frustrating that HSC spent a decade dicking everyone around with this. I'm appalled that after all the posturing and tacticool bravado, here we are.

 

[Brett327]

FIFY. But you're not piling on, I agree with you guys. It's frustrating that HSC spent a decade dicking everyone around with this. I'm appalled that after all the posturing and tacticool bravado, here we are.

Are you fixed wing in the USAF now? I forget.

 

[RedFive]

Are you fixed wing in the USAF now? I forget.

Tankers, along with a surprising number of other HSC guys. There is so much relief in having a clear and concise mission. Not to mention the beer and per diem!

 

[Farva01]

I thought it was a 5-bird Det with an additional 2 on a support ship? And I believe the CVN CO is going to own them, which is probably a good thing.

 

[DanMa1156]

Former DH of mine, now a CO gave me the word to expect a 4 bird det led by an O-4 in the same vein as the COD det... except, ya know, on the boat and without everyone sucking up to you. What could go wrong? Ha.

Edit: Oh and to answer others - the word he gave me was that CO/XO will be basically the same as EXP HSC front offices; in fact, the CVW squadrons will consolidate (to 5 total supposedly) and effectively become expeditionary. We'll see.

 

[Brett327]

I thought it was a 5-bird Det with an additional 2 on a support ship? And I believe the CVN CO is going to own them, which is probably a good thing.

Especially if it’s an O4 OIC. Not sure how they handle the COD OIC now, but I presume he gets his FITREP from his COD ISIC, not the CVW. Not all that different from HSL Det concept, back in the day.

 

[PhrogLoop]

 

[HAL Pilot]

A couple of questions for the old fuck...

1. Is there still a ASW dipping sonar helo? Which squadron.

2. Why all this talk about making room? From what I gather, there are about 70 aircraft on the carrier. In the 80s and at least through the mid 90s we had close to 90. Plus many had a bigger footprint (F-14 and S-3).