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Should I stay or should I go? Or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying And Love HSC.

croakerfish

Well-Known Member
pilot
I think you have to define what level of SAR support USN is willing to fund. USN obviously sees a need a need for organic SAR underway, especially when jets or troops are in the air. But this is a pretty limited capability that is primarily focused on immediate SAR around Mom. Besides Guam I'm not sure there's a NEED for USN to fund HSC to do the type of SAR missions you mention above. Sure, participating in those missions make for good optics and are professionally fulfilling for those involved but it would seem to be way outside what USN wants its helicopters to do.
Station SAR pretty much anywhere would like a word!
 

Pags

Pope of Chili Town
pilot
Station SAR pretty much anywhere would like a word!
From what I understand from listening to the NAS Pax guys give their pitch a few days ago they also function in a similar role: they provide organic SAR to USN facilities that conduct high risk activities (Pax, China Lake) or are far away from USCG assets (Whidbey, Lemoore). The USN pays for them to support USN activities but is fine with them being on the hook for civil use as needed. So again, USN needs them to be the local on call unit in case a USN jet goes down during test; their role isn't to replicate USCG/USAF capabilities.
 

insanebikerboy

Internet killed the television star
pilot
None
Contributor
Do the medics also fill roles as crewmen, or are the roles separated?
In my current squadron, they can function as a competent level 1. That means they are capable of clearing and ensuring safe landings in any environment, and are NATOPS qualified.

We have had SMTs get good on the gun but it’s not a hard requirement.
 

red_stang65

Active Member
pilot
So again, USN needs them to be the local on call unit in case a USN jet goes down during test; their role isn't to replicate USCG/USAF capabilities.
That’s more a function of how the national SAR plan has divided up the roles and responsibilities for CONUS. Been a while since I read the exact verbiage, but USCG and USAF are primary for inland and inside of territorial seas. USN has the lead for the Pacific Ocean on paper, but a lot of the time that goes to USAF as well.
 

Pags

Pope of Chili Town
pilot
That’s more a function of how the national SAR plan has divided up the roles and responsibilities for CONUS. Been a while since I read the exact verbiage, but USCG and USAF are primary for inland and inside of territorial seas. USN has the lead for the Pacific Ocean on paper, but a lot of the time that goes to USAF as well.
I can't speak for Whidbey and Lemoore SAR but the T&E SAR is there because of test requirements. For instance, when F-35 was doing their early testing there was a requirement for there to be a SAR helo on alert when an F-35 was in the air. When F-35 was testing in the warning areas the SAR helos would pre-position to Wallops to meet the response time requirements. When Pax Station SAR isn't standing alert for T&E events they stand alert for NDW as able but they're only primary responders for T&E.
 

AllYourBass

Unusual Vibration Salesperson
pilot
[enters thread full of adults, pulls conversation away from anything productive]

My petty gripe is that people who hate flying Starboard D haven't logged nearly enough night-time SSC hours in middle-of-fuck nowhere ocean. At least you have something to look at :'( The grass water is always greener bluer...

WHAT'S THE DEAL WITH AIRLINE FOOD, AM I RIGHT?

[leaves]
 

RobLyman

- hawk Pilot
pilot
None
Right, but that's because your PRIMARY mission is MEDEVAC. Of course that makes sense. That said, since I misunderstood...


Thanks for the correction. That makes more sense now.
Yes. I had written a bunch more about how we are better equipped to do that mission, then deleted it. It came across too much like bragging about capabilities.

TLDP (too long didn't post):

Aircraft whose primary mission is medevac, CSAR, PR, etc.. are much better outfitted and much better trained than HSC...because it's their primary mission. I feel some in HSC do not see or recognize the significant gap in capability between their second/third tier status and first tier providers. If you don't know the difference, it's easy to assume you too can do the same mission(s). You probably could, just not (nearly?) as well.

Red Stang65: Our medics have the exact same commander's tasks list (CTL)as our crew chiefs. They do have different MOS training requirements. Medics work on people, crew chiefs work on aircraft, but a lot of what happens in the back of the aircraft can be done by either. Both respond to emergencies, clear the aircraft for dust landings, operate NVGs, operate the rescue hoist, Bambi Buckets, etc.. Medics will occasionally help with a daily and crew chiefs will help the medics care for patients. We all hose down the aircraft after a particularly bad mission. At small FOBs we all work on daily inspections, 40 hr PMS inspections, or minor maintenance. You get the idea....

FWIW, we also serve as primary medevac/life flight stateside during our annual training events.
 

Jim123

DD-214 in hand and I'm gonna party like it's 1998
pilot
40 hr PMS inspections
Curious- is that the same thing as the old 30 hour? As in, did the H-60 30 hour turn into a 40 hour? I vaguely remember when the phase intervals got increased.

The 30 hour inspection was one of the really great things about the original Blackhawk... the flight hour-based inspections on earlier mil helicopters were a lot more frequent than that (Rob, I realize you know all this). Operationally, it was a pretty big deal to be able to fly for 30 hours with "just" the daily, adding oil, and putting gas into it.
 

RobLyman

- hawk Pilot
pilot
None
Curious- is that the same thing as the old 30 hour? As in, did the H-60 30 hour turn into a 40 hour? I vaguely remember when the phase intervals got increased.

The 30 hour inspection was one of the really great things about the original Blackhawk... the flight hour-based inspections on earlier mil helicopters were a lot more frequent than that (Rob, I realize you know all this). Operationally, it was a pretty big deal to be able to fly for 30 hours with "just" the daily, adding oil, and putting gas into it.
Honestly, I don't remember the 30 hour on the Seahawk. It's been 23 years. But it is likely that they are more or less the same inspection. I'm flying tonight, so when I get in later I'll sum up what's in the 40 hr. The Blackhawk phase (PMI) is split into a PMI 1 and a PMI 2, with the PMI 2 being the longer, more involved phase. The Army went from a 360 hour interval to a 480 hour interval about a year and a half ago. That means the full phase is now 960 hours! The H-60M, with IVHMS and AVCS is moving more and more towards condition based maintenance. AMCOM/Redstone actually reviews flight download data and will notify a unit to change out a drivetrain component when they find anomalies. The system has its problems, like notifying the wrong unit, but it has promise.
 

Gatordev

Well-Known Member
pilot
Site Admin
Contributor
AMCOM/Redstone actually reviews flight download data and will notify a unit to change out a drivetrain component when they find anomalies. The system has its problems, like notifying the wrong unit, but it has promise.
NAVAIR does this now, as well, along with data that's pulled locally after a flight. I know it's save me once or twice because I was pretty sure I over-torqued on the display with a student, but they went in afterwards and pulled it up and said I was fine.

I'm amused that your phase is called a PMI where 3 PMIs equals a phase, but our full cycle of phases equals(-ish) a PMI cycle (although technically it's on a calendar). Yay government!
 

DanMa1156

Land of the rising sun. Literally. There's no DST!
pilot
Contributor
In my current squadron, they can function as a competent level 1. That means they are capable of clearing and ensuring safe landings in any environment, and are NATOPS qualified.

We have had SMTs get good on the gun but it’s not a hard requirement.
This was my experience. We had one that I would put up against any of the AWs in the aircraft or any physical challenge. Ours I think spent 2-3 days a week at the clinic and 2-3 days at the squadron working in Safety/NATOPS and doing or giving AW training.
 

RobLyman

- hawk Pilot
pilot
None
Honestly, I don't remember the 30 hour on the Seahawk. It's been 23 years. But it is likely that they are more or less the same inspection. I'm flying tonight, so when I get in later I'll sum up what's in the 40 hr. The Blackhawk phase (PMI) is split into a PMI 1 and a PMI 2, with the PMI 2 being the longer, more involved phase. The Army went from a 360 hour interval to a 480 hour interval about a year and a half ago. That means the full phase is now 960 hours! The H-60M, with IVHMS and AVCS is moving more and more towards condition based maintenance. AMCOM/Redstone actually reviews flight download data and will notify a unit to change out a drivetrain component when they find anomalies. The system has its problems, like notifying the wrong unit, but it has promise.
40 Hour = Pedal boots, seats, ovhd soundproofing, landing gear fairings, tail drive shaft covers, stabilator locks, brakes, rotor blade insp, M4 mounts, tire pressure, and if installed, EIBF filters cleaned, oiled and replaced.
 
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