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Serious Question!!!

Brett327

Well-Known Member
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Super Moderator
Contributor
You absolutely can dipense all the experience and leadership advice you want. Nobody is stopping you.

I will, however, continue to dispense my observations that it's not all Choker Whites out there. Hell, if everything is running so damn smoothly, why do I have to stop what I am doing to have all-hands "Ethics" training at this stage in my career?



Sorry you feel that way, and too bad you don't know the first thing about my service. If you did, you'd know that it has been anything but mediocre.

But hey man, whatever - you do your thing.
What HD said. You do look at nearly everything in a negative light. The fact that you're compelled to rebutt anything positive anyone says about the service with your own bad experiences speaks volumes. I know you think you're being "fair and ballanced," but nothing in my post presented a rosy "all mess dress & choker whites" picture of anything. It certainly didn't need a rebuttal and it's getting a little tiresome.

I'm sure you've got a host of tips and best practices that you pass on to your SNAs on a daily basis to help make their lives easier and to increase their chances of success. If your studs argued with you and told you they shouldn't bother trying to be good because some people are able to squeek by by doing the minimum, I imagine that might not sit well with you or your peers.
 

BackOrdered

Well-Known Member
Contributor
I still maintain that this shouldn't require action by the CO. Should he be informed? According to that unbelievable piece of crap order posted earlier, evidently so. According to that, nearly everything is reportable. I hope that doesn't apply to the USMC, but I've seen Wing guidance saying similar things. I didn't always follow it.

Apparently you are suppose to report when you get in a car accident. We did one for an O-3. No injuries and he wasn't at fault or anything, just "the rules".
 

Harrier Dude

Living the dream
Apparently you are suppose to report when you get in a car accident. We did one for an O-3. No injuries and he wasn't at fault or anything, just "the rules".

Yeah.......well we certainly aren't there yet. At least in practice. I wouldn't have sent that up. At some point you're just saving the boss a ton of time and trouble.
 

Brett327

Well-Known Member
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Super Moderator
Contributor
I suggested a while back that all the reporting requirements these days give an increasing number of more and more minor incidents visibility at the top, thus prompting an increased desire for oversight, which is why we have this ridiculous snowball to deal with now.
 

Schnugg

It's gettin' a bit dramatic 'round here...
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Have you seen the plethora of daily OPREP reporting ...its out of control.

"Airman Smith stubbed his toe. No impact to mission."
 

Schnugg

It's gettin' a bit dramatic 'round here...
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Have you seen the plethora of daily OPREP reporting ...its out of control.

"Airman Smith stubbed his toe. No impact to mission."
 

Schnugg

It's gettin' a bit dramatic 'round here...
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Have you seen the plethora of daily OPREP reporting ...its out of control.

"Airman Smith stubbed his toe. No impact to mission."
 

MasterBates

Well-Known Member
Yep.. I don't have to file reports unless someone dies or breaks a bone, or I set a rig on fire. Kind of nice that they assume I've got shit under control otherwise.
 

Jim123

DD-214 in hand and I'm gonna party like it's 1998
pilot
Yep.. I don't have to file reports unless someone dies or breaks a bone, or I set a rig on fire. Kind of nice that they assume I've got shit under control otherwise.

I'm pretty sure this was also the "don't call me unless ____" criteria any time I was left home alone as a kid. :p
 

KBayDog

Well-Known Member
What HD said. You do look at nearly everything in a negative light. The fact that you're compelled to rebutt anything positive anyone says about the service with your own bad experiences speaks volumes.

That's one way to put it.

Another way to put it is that I don't necessarily toe the party line; in other words, I sometimes submit positions that others (to include chains of command throughout my career) either didn't think of, or don't always want to hear. Regardless, I offer them as a "cost" - i.e., "You can do X, but it's going to cost the unit Y." I am not a CO - my job is to provide options and advice.

Once decisions are made (by anyone in my chain that I'm supporting), I take those decision on as my own and carry on.

And no, not everything has to do with my "own bad experiences." Many times they're based on the experiences of others. I try not to let myself (or others) repeat mistakes that have already been made.

It certainly didn't need a rebuttal and it's getting a little tiresome.

You are free to ignore my posts.

However, if you post something on an internet forum, there's always a chance that someone is going to comment on it.
If your studs argued with you and told you they shouldn't bother trying to be good because some people are able to squeek by by doing the minimum, I imagine that might not sit well with you or your peers.

You're right...but when did I say that someone shouldn't bother trying to be good? Where this discussion went downhill is when I suggested that not every command is of the caliber that we read about in our leadership texts. Many are stellar commands, but more than are not...as evidenced by the number of COs/XOs/CMCs/Chiefs of the Boat/etc. that are relieved every year.
 

Brett327

Well-Known Member
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Another way to put it is that I don't necessarily toe the party line; in other words, I sometimes submit positions that others (to include chains of command throughout my career) either didn't think of, or don't always want to hear.
What does any of this have to do with this:
... a good CO/CMC team has already established ground rules and disciplinary SOP so the CoC knows what the CO expects to be informed of and at what level he wants certain things handled at.
Where do you see a party line to be toed in my example of front office best practices? I make no statement that this is how it is in the fleet, only that this is how it should be.
I'm confused - what part of this statement do you disagree with?
 

KBayDog

Well-Known Member
I make no statement that this is how it is in the fleet, only that this is how it should be.

I think we're talking in circles. I agree 100% with this ^.

This:
Another way to put it is that I don't necessarily toe the party line; in other words, I sometimes submit positions that others (to include chains of command throughout my career) either didn't think of, or don't always want to hear.
has to do with this:
You do look at nearly everything in a negative light. The fact that you're compelled to rebutt anything positive anyone says about the service with your own bad experiences speaks volumes. I know you think you're being "fair and ballanced," but nothing in my post presented a rosy "all mess dress & choker whites" picture of anything. It certainly didn't need a rebuttal and it's getting a little tiresome.
 

Brett327

Well-Known Member
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Right. Now we're getting somewhere. If you agreed 100% with what I said (in the first post), why did you feel the need to rebutt by saying that "there are a lot of assumptions in my statement." No there aren't. It is how commands should be run, not how they all are. It's something to aspire to. The fact that not all commands work that way is implied in the statement itself. Zero assumptions required to understand that concept.

I don't think you can see past the messenger here. I'll chalk it up to that and we can move on.

This is germane:
 

KBayDog

Well-Known Member
Right. Now we're getting somewhere. If you agreed 100% with what I said (in the first post), why did you feel the need to rebutt by saying that "there are a lot of assumptions in my statement." No there aren't. It is how commands should be run, not how they all are. It's something to aspire to. The fact that not all commands work that way is implied in the statement itself. Zero assumptions required to understand that concept.

Sure. Because when you posted this:
Brett327 said:
Some of you folks are nuking this. What is this, Divo for dummies? Having this get handled at the CPO level doesn't mean you have to keep the CO out of the loop. Happens all the time, and a good CO/CMC team has already established ground rules and disciplinary SOP so the CoC knows what the CO expects to be informed of and at what level he wants certain things handled at.
you were clearly saying that it is "something to aspire to," and that "the fact that not all commands work that way is implied in the statement itself." :rolleyes:

In any event, you can go ahead and have the last word...I know you're going to anyway...but I'm done here. Just do me one favor: The next time you post a "germane" video clip, make sure it's actually "germane." (I suggest something from The Beast of Yucca Flats or Soul Plane.)
 
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