Self Defense stories

[Rocketman]

But the problem comes when you hear stories like the guy in Texas who saw robbers enter his neighbor's house, called 911, put the phone down, walked over and capped them both. His neighbor was away, his life was not in danger, and he was damn lucky to get acquitted of murder. Some already think that people who keep a loaded weapon for home defense are paranoid or mentally unstable. Do you think that guy helped those of us who want to keep our right to bear arms? "Buddy" is indeed half a word.

Yea we are on the same page. A couple of weeks ago I saw a great tv show on the Castle Doctrine. It was a Dan Rather Reports show. Believe it or not it was very well done. A good piece of reporting I thought. The guy you mention in Texas was a part of it, including the 911 tapes. He did make "us" look bad for sure. In fact he sounded a bit unstable on the tapes. I can't believe he wasn't at least convicted of something.

 

[FlyBoyd]

You never know what you will do until the shit really hits the fan but my intent is to assume the guy who just broke into my house at 0300 is a threat until he proves otherwise.

In my neighborhood (and probably most others) a majority of residents are home late at night. IMO, I think a logical assumption is that the intruder knows you are home, has a plan for you and it will most likely be violent. My response is predicated on assessing the threat. The threat was assessed the instant the intruder made the choice to enter my (most likely) occupied residence without ringing the doorbell and asking (and gaining) my permission to enter.

 

[Rocketman]

§ 9.42. DEADLY FORCE TO PROTECT PROPERTY. A person is
justified in using deadly force against another to protect land or
tangible, movable property:
(1) if he would be justified in using force against the
other under Section 9.41; and
(2) when and to the degree he reasonably believes the
deadly force is immediately necessary:
(A) to prevent the other's imminent commission of
arson, burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, theft during the
nighttime, or criminal mischief during the nighttime; or
(B) to prevent the other who is fleeing
immediately after committing burglary, robbery, aggravated
robbery, or theft during the nighttime from escaping with the
property;

This is very different than NC law. You act in this way where I live and you WILL go to jail, right wrong or indifferent.

 

[FlyBoyd]

This is very different than NC law. You act in this way where I live and you WILL go to jail, right wrong or indifferent.

That is why I pointed it out. We have different laws and a different mindset here.

 

[Rocketman]

In my neighborhood (and probably most others) a majority of residents are home late at night. IMO, I think a logical assumption is that the intruder knows you are home, has a plan for you and it will most likely be violent. My response is predicated on assessing the threat. The threat was assessed the instant the intruder made the choice to enter my (most likely) occupied residence without ringing the doorbell and asking (and gaining) my permission to enter.

My thoughts exactly. If the guy runs when the beam of my surefire hits him in the face I won't shoot him on the way out. Otherwise he would be well advised to listen very carefully to my instructions.

 

[Rocketman]

That is why I pointed it out. We have different laws and a different mindset here.

Understand completely. Lately I have had several co workers ask my advice on "what kind of gun to buy" for home defense. The first thing I tell them is to learn the law. The second thing I tell them is not to buy a gun if they aren't willing to train with it. Not just shoot it once and put it away but train with it. Otherwise I tell them to buy a baseball bat.

 

[FlyBoyd]

If the guy runs when the beam of my surefire hits him in the face I won't shoot him on the way out unless he is still holding my stuff.

Fixed it for Texas

 

[BACONATOR]

The point to take away is that a responsible gun owner has an obligation (to himself and others) to KNOW the laws in the state he resides.

In reality, would I come out blazing if someone was in my house? Hell no! Of the many stories of armed defense I've read, the vast majority have been ended simply by brandishing the weapon. Simply holding the suspect at gunpoint and calling the cops or brandishing the weapon and watching him flee would be enough for me.

If he approached me in a threatening way, or went for a weapon, he'd get a couple rounds in the thorax/head (as long as it's not a glock). In Texas or Florida, I'd have no fear of consequences if I fired under the above circumstances. In California, I would probably get off, but I'd certainly have to hire defense and probably go to the grand jury.

Even my instructor in the CHL course made a good point.

"Hey, if a guy breaks in at night and runs off with your VCR, and you kill him, would you get charged?"

"... probably not, but is a VCR worth all the time, money and worry hiring an attorney, going before the grand jury and hoping to not get indicted? Of course not! Make smart choices"

There's a distinct difference in doing the legal thing, and doing the smart thing.

I do agree with a lot of what Nittany said, however the castle doctrine completely allowed that guy to get off under Texas law, as was pointed out, so I don't consider him "lucky". He did what he was legally allowed to do. Was it smart? Debatable.

 

[wink]

In my neighborhood (and probably most others) a majority of residents are home late at night. IMO, I think a logical assumption is that the intruder knows you are home, has a plan for you and it will most likely be violent. My response is predicated on assessing the threat. The threat was assessed the instant the intruder made the choice to enter my (most likely) occupied residence without ringing the doorbell and asking (and gaining) my permission to enter.

You are lucky you live in Texas I guess. You should be able to execute all the unarmed trespassers you want. In most other states, if you tried to tell the police or a court you assumed what an intruder knows or means to do, based on mind reading I guess, you would end up in a hell of a lot of hot water. In case you missed my drift in the previous posts, it doesn't matter what the law says. Kill an unarmed person that is not, in fact, a deadly threat, and tell me how that works out for you.

Oh, while I am at it maybe I should invite other Texans to chime in. You mentioned the "Texas mind set". Well I live in the wild west, have most my life. Been involved in law enforcement. I have to tell you we apparently don't have the Texas mind set. Do the other Texans want to confirm the Texas mind set is to kill unarmed people that pose no deadly threat?

 

[C420sailor]

...as long as it's not a glock...

So much hate. :icon_smil

 

[MasterBates]

I hate Glock's grip angle. The trigger I can deal with.

It points too high for me the way the angle is. JMB got it right with the 1911. SIGs fit me good too.

 

[FlyBoyd]

You are lucky you live in Texas I guess. You should be able to execute all the unarmed trespassers you want. In most other states, if you tried to tell the police or a court you assumed what an intruder knows or means to do, based on mind reading I guess, you would end up in a hell of a lot of hot water. In case you missed my drift in the previous posts, it doesn't matter what the law says. Kill an unarmed person that is not, in fact, a deadly threat, and tell me how that works out for you.

Oh, while I am at it maybe I should invite other Texans to chime in. You mentioned the "Texas mind set". Well I live in the wild west, have most my life. Been involved in law enforcement. I have to tell you we apparently don't have the Texas mind set. Do the other Texans want to confirm the Texas mind set is to kill unarmed people that pose no deadly threat?

Wink – this is not the response I was expecting. Your other posts were thoughtful and introspective. This one, on the other hand, is nothing but a bunch of weak jabs at Texans and the fact that our laws don’t agree with your idea of what is right. I would usually respond in kind but I will refrain…this time.

Was the guy right? Well, let me quote Chris Rock – “I'm not sayin’ he should have killed them…but I understand.”

I was born and raised here so while I obviously don’t speak for all Texans, I can speak about the mind set I referred to in my post above. As you know Texans are very proud. We are proud that a majority of us go the extra mile to be courteous and show respect to others. This respect extends to one’s property. If you choose to disrespect someone you had better expect some fallout from your actions. I firmly believe that the days when you would get whooped (I mean in a fight) for doing somebody wrong were far better. Today, you see all levels of disrespect toward you and your neighbor that go unchecked/unpunished because of the impending assault charge. Texas probably has the same assault charge as most states but we draw the line (literally) at our property line. Cross it and threaten me or my stuff and Texas law basically looks the other way. I was raised to respect others and I, in turn, expect the same. That is the mind set I speak of, sir.

As far as assuming what the intruder intends when he breaks into my house? Flip it around…what would you expect if you entered someone else’s house illegally, late at night, knowing they were probably home? A home cooked meal? I would expect to be confronted, most likely with violence to include a firearm. Why you ask? Because, that is what I was raised to expect. I posted the laws (in Texas) concerning this topic above. A recent case pushed the boundaries of this law and it was upheld. Like I said…I can’t speak for all Texans but it seems the Grand Jury has the same mind set you mock above. OBTW, if I saw my neighbor being robbed and the police didn’t respond quickly enough, you should expect me to do something about it. So don’t go to my neighbor’s house looking for that home cooked meal either.

 

[C420sailor]

I hate Glock's grip angle. The trigger I can deal with.

It points too high for me the way the angle is. JMB got it right with the 1911. SIGs fit me good too.

Funny how that works. I've been shooting Glocks my whole life---learned how to shoot on them. If I try to sight in with anything else I'm aiming in the dirt.

 

[rare21]

just remember to tell the 911 dispatcher EVERYTHING! This includes you the neighbor, good samaritan, etc especially if you have a gun out and are holding it to a person. Tell them what you're dressed in, etc....i had an off duty state trooper in boxer briefs on the floor in seconds flat after we came up on him pointing a gun at a bleeding man on the floor next to a severely damaged jeep cherokee. Turns out bleeding man is high on coke and alcohol, ran into a telephone pole and said state trooper stopped him from running off into the wilderness. Also if you do have a gun expect to be laying prone on the floor until we figure out who's who in the exchange. DO NOT BE OFFENDED. the police dont know you from Adam so dont take it personally.

This goes for traffic stops with folks that have CHLs...some officers wont care as long as you dont go for the weapon and you tell them where it is, some will have you step out, ask you where it is, get it unload it and make it safe and after the stop hand it to you like that, and some are a bit more paranoid. I usually take it out and make it safe before continuing with the stop and i've gotten into arguments with friends that are very pro gun and hate the fact that I do that. All that I tell them is that I DONT TRUST YOU!
Just dont be offended and if you're carrying always advise that to an officer...I hate to be giving a verbal warning and my dispatcher comes back with "132, 10-27 comes back to a concealed weapons permit holder"

 

[Bevo16]

Boyd has it right.

The point of the law was to take power away from criminals. It gives the homeowner the ability to defend himself without trying to read the mind of a criminal. That is the way it should be. If you commit a crime in Texas, you do so with the knowledge that it could cost you your life. I am fine with that.

If I come home from the range on a Saturday afternoon and someone is in the process of cleaning out my house, I don't want to have to guess about his level of planning. I don't want to have to find a fall back position and call 911 and wait for the police to let the guys get away. I would much rather stop them myself without worries of having to explain how scared I was.

In Texas, if he is in the house stealing shit, and his name is not on the lease, it's a closed case.