SECNAV Criticizes 'Blueberries'

[Recovering LSO]

they chose digital camoflauge because it would solve complaint #4 I listed on the previous page by looking more military-esque and because it would fit in with the other services' battle uniforms better than jeans and a t-shirt or a blue jump suit. They chose blue so that paint spots and grease -- things that come with working on a ship -- wouldn't stand out. This is to solve complaint #2 regarding overly restrictive wear regulations and allow Sailors to wear the uniform in public after a day's work in-port without looking like a complete bag of ass.

Yea, blue camoflauge might have missed the forest for the trees in the looking like a bag of ass dept, but that's the reason for it. Whether you or even the Commandant of the USMC thinks that's good enough justification to wear camoflauge is immaterial; Navy flag officers think that we should wear it, so they ought to have unrestricted access to the pattern like all the other armed services.

and folks around here accuse me of having ingested the so-called Kool-aide...

 

[insanebikerboy]

Words

Having worn both the old dungarees and utilities, I can say that all the reasons you've given are superficial at best. They were more comfortable, easier to maintain, and all around better than NWU's. The only semi-valid complaint about utilities and dungarees was they couldn't be worn out in town.

There was a sense of pride in looking like a sailor which was obvious before. Wearing the blueberries just makes everyone look like a bunch of d-bags.

And by the way, despite what some chiefs said, nowhere is it written that creases were required on the utilities or dungarees.

 

[Swanee]

Our Sailors have bled and died in blue dungarees & chambray shirts through countless conflicts this century an last, and did not need 'groundpounder cammys' to look like, or prove themselves "warfighters"!
BzB

When I think about what Navy warfighters wear, I think about 4 groups of warriors- 1) Aviators, 2) SEALs, 3) Surface and 4) Submariners. Pretty sure none of them wear/wore anything close to blueberries. In fact, I'm pretty sure the Surface guys in the destroyers and destroyer escorts in the Battle Off Samar wore khakis and dungarees when they fought tooth and nail with the Japanese. I wonder if those guys worried about looking like warfighters... Seems to me that they were too busy fighting a war to really care.



This isn't saying that uniform changes haven't been necessary. I can't imagine going into battle wearing something akin to my dress blues.


I also have a love/hate relationship with my Marine Corps wrt our self importance. We love to tout that we are an awesome service (and we can be), but we are so afraid that we are going to disappear that we insist on making ourselves look different at every opportunity.

 

[gotta_fly]

First, it sounds like everyone is bitching about the USMC's possessiveness in general, not just for the Navy. I specifically mentioned that the Army spent 10's of millions of dollars to develop an independent solution to what the USMC already had in part because the USMC didn't like sharing.

Second, the Navy did need a new working uniform. I listed multiple reasons why Sailors didn't like utilities on the previous page. I'm sure there's more but having never worn them, those are the 4 I constantly got an earful about. Since the Navy was developing a new uniform, they chose digital camoflauge because it would solve complaint #4 I listed on the previous page by looking more military-esque and because it would fit in with the other services' battle uniforms better than jeans and a t-shirt or a blue jump suit. They chose blue so that paint spots and grease -- things that come with working on a ship -- wouldn't stand out. This is to solve complaint #2 regarding overly restrictive wear regulations and allow Sailors to wear the uniform in public after a day's work in-port without looking like a complete bag of ass.

Yea, blue camoflauge might have missed the forest for the trees in the looking like a bag of ass dept, but that's the reason for it. Whether you or even the Commandant of the USMC thinks that's good enough justification to wear camoflauge is immaterial; Navy flag officers think that we should wear it, so they ought to have unrestricted access to the pattern like all the other armed services.

Third, does it really matter why the Navy wanted camoflauge? Patenting a camoflauge pattern is like patenting the color green.

Are you butt snorkeling the retired chiefs that invented NWUs? The hiding stains feature is a complete farse. The uniform is unfit for an industrial environmemt due to fire issues. It is unfit for outdoor work due to being dark colors and thick material. The cost to obtain it is astronomical compared to the uniforms that already existed. By the by, WTF is a skimmer?

BLOB, what seagoing force in the entire world has anything remotely close to this uniform? No one, because it is dumb.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

 

[707guy]

The 'Sailor Suit' disintegration began with introduction of the CPO style blue jacket, white shirt and tie w/ bridge cap in the early '70s, when from a short distance, you couldn't tell an E-3 from a Chief

Not to drag another uniform into the fray but I'm not a fan of the "everyone wears a khaki shirt" enlisted uniform. Khakis should be for E-7 and above period.

Yes - take them off, get them completely wet in the water, then tie the ends of the pant legs to occlude them (didn't tie them together just tied each leg shut individually), then hold them over your head by the waist band and smartly bring them down on the water. Traps air in the (tied off) legs for a good while & it acts like a pair of water wings. When the air leaks out, repeat as needed. It actually worked quite well in the pool. no idea how it would work in the ocean.

I was joking with that one but yup you're right...

And by the way, despite what some chiefs said, nowhere is it written that creases were required on the utilities or dungarees.

I always thought it was bit overboard to put creases in the ol' dungaree shirt. I can see it for quarters/frocking ceremony but for everyday it was a little ridiculous. Just one of those "I wanna stand out" kinda things.

 

[Spekkio]

Are you butt snorkeling the retired chiefs that invented NWUs?

No. I'm saying that's the reasons given for inventing the uniform. The party line makes a lot of false assumptions. First, anyone who has seen a Sailor come out of doing extensive maintenance can attest the NWU does not hide dirt and grease. In fact, it ends up turning brown, ripping, and just looking generally terrible at 4x the cost of coveralls. Additionally, I don't know who thinks servicemembers would feel more like a warfighter in blue camo, but that was a bit off the mark. So we traded making enlisted Sailors look like prisoners to making them look like clowns in public while loosening wear restrictions. Then there's...

The hiding stains feature is a complete farse. The uniform is unfit for an industrial environmemt due to fire issues. It is unfit for outdoor work due to being dark colors and thick material. The cost to obtain it is astronomical compared to the uniforms that already existed.

Agreed on all accounts, and I believe I said that the Navy 'fucked it away' several posts ago. Although the thick material is nice in the winter if you are in a northern climate, none of this has anything to do with the color scheme chosen.

WTF is a skimmer?

Could refer to a surface ship or her associated crewmembers.

BLOB, what seagoing force in the entire world has anything remotely close to this uniform?

I actually like the Brit working uniform, too. It's kinda like utilities but more comfy (according to them) and without the silly rules.

And by the way, despite what some chiefs said, nowhere is it written that creases were required on the utilities or dungarees.

Doesn't matter. If you're the E-6 and below getting chewed out for it, are you gonna run to a LT afterward or put creases in the uniform?

When I think about what Navy warfighters wear, I think about 4 groups of warriors- 1) Aviators, 2) SEALs, 3) Surface and 4) Submariners. Pretty sure none of them wear/wore anything close to blueberries. In fact, I'm pretty sure the Surface guys in the destroyers and destroyer escorts in the Battle Off Samar wore khakis and dungarees when they fought tooth and nail with the Japanese. I wonder if those guys worried about looking like warfighters... Seems to me that they were too busy fighting a war to really care.

Not a single service wore camo prior to 'Nam, and I'm not sure if it started at the end of 'Nam or shortly after. Point is, plenty of real "warfighters" fought for our country without spending so much time on whether they looked the part. Besides, when they came back they got into their service or dress uniforms, anyway.

 

[Renegade One]

I can't imagine going into battle wearing something akin to my dress blues.

Of course not. When we're not playing shirtless, dog-tag volleyball, it's all "choker whites" these days...

 

[kmac]

I've been trying to pay attention to Phase IV of the Army's program for new camo. The four parts on uniforms found at www.hyperstealth.com does a great job at describing the situation and why the old woodland uniforms weren't that good. It also goes into the Marine Corps development from CADPAT (see part 3). All in all, it's a good read from an actual insider.

 

[Renegade One]

Not a single service wore camo prior to 'Nam...

All USMC evidence to the contrary:
http://www.museumpacific.com/usa/usmc-wwii-camo.html

 

[Spekkio]

Interesting. Usually I picture Marines in WWII dressed like this:

 

[Renegade One]

Interesting. Usually I picture Marines in WWII dressed like this:

But you DO note the cammie helmet covers, yes?

 

[Hotdogs]

Not a single service wore camo prior to 'Nam, and I'm not sure if it started at the end of 'Nam or shortly after. Point is, plenty of real "warfighters" fought for our country without spending so much time on whether they looked the part. Besides, when they came back they got into their service or dress uniforms, anyway.

This statement just confirms that I'm sure you do not know what you're talking about. The Marines used Camofluage starting the at battle of Tarawa and used it extensively in the Pacific theater during the war. Camouflage has uses aside from concealment and one of the principal features of the MARPAT design was that it hid the IR signature significantly better than the previous BDUs did, and with the prevalence of FLIR and IR systems in conventional Armies today, it was a pretty big need. The rest of the services should be figuring out why they couldn't come up with a camo as cheap as 319k and then spending millions vice trying to lay some blame on us for their mismanagement of money.

 

[ea6bflyr]

I've been trying to pay attention to Phase IV of the Army's program for new camo. The four parts on uniforms found at www.hyperstealth.com does a great job at describing the situation and why the old woodland uniforms weren't that good. It also goes into the Marine Corps development from CADPAT (see part 3). All in all, it's a good read from an actual insider.

No wonder this is so hard...too many options out there.

 

[BigRed389]

The rest of the services should be figuring out why they couldn't come up with a camo as cheap as 319k and then spending millions vice trying to lay some blame on us for their mismanagement of money.

You don't prefer the story of how the underdog Marine Corps bullied the other services into developing their own unique camo patterns for land warfare?

Seriously, if the other services had really wanted CADPAT/MARPAT, they could've gotten it. There are acquisition laws/regs that would've been behind them if they had been willing to press the issue. Obviously they weren't.

 

[ea6bflyr]

...and before that...

Like a boss. If it ain't broke...

This was literally, the most comfortable uniform I ever wore. Cost about $40, was machine washable and required near 0 maintenance, fire retardant, flash burn resistant and you could use it to float...What was the problem again?

Too many sailors felt like the uniform represented something else...