SECNAV Criticizes 'Blueberries'

[Hotdogs]

The visibility thing is a silly argument against NWUs. They aren't any worse than dungarees, utilities, or dark blue coveralls at being seen in the water.

I'll flip you one more. Give me a reason why they were good a color? Color me ignorant but why would you even need camouflage aboard a ship? The Corps designed a uniform to replace a 30 year old tri-color design that was obsolete. There was a need for new camoflage.

 

[insanebikerboy]

Yup, we should be wearing the same cammies.

However to blame the Corps for other services monumental fuck ups and wasting of money and is disingenuous. Your services screwed it away and now we're all going to pay for it. Good job guys. I personally don't like the idea of looking like a sailor which to put politely, is typically one not regarded for with the best body shape or phyiscal fitness...and I sure as hell don't want the public confusing us for that reason either.

The Navy and Air Force as a whole never needed new uniforms....but everybody has to be "special" these days as it seems...

Smilies.

Of course, if the Marine Corps didn't wank, bitch, and moan about other services copying their pattern then maybe this mess would've been resolved a long time ago?

That doesn't excuse the other services from going full retard on their designs but to remove all culpability from the Corps is a little disingenuous in and of itself.

 

[e6bflyer]

I'll flip you one more. Give me a reason why they were good a color? Color me ignorant but why would you even need camouflage aboard a ship? The Corps designed a uniform to replace a 30 year old tri-color design that was obsolete. There was a need for new camoflage.

Supposedly it was so the various shades of shipboard paint and grease would blend in.
Has anyone mentioned the Coast Guard? Their working uniforms are sensible, comfortable, and not too bad looking. Crazy.

 

[Hozer]

Dungarees f-ing sucked ass. Yup, hands almost in worthless front pockets!

 

[Spekkio]

I have to say I didn't "love" the old dungarees - it was what we had so you lived with it. It wasn't uncomfortable by any stretch and back in the day it was kind of a pain in the ass when you couldn't stop anywhere on the way home but - those were the rules and so you lived with it... Jeez I remember the big go around us admin types had with the CO/CMC when we wanted to wear white flight deck jerseys on the boat. First we were allowed to as long as we made at least one FOD walkdown per day. Then maintenance whined and we lost 'em. Kinda sucked going back to the chambray shirts but those were the rules so we lived with it. Way too much money spent and way too much energy spent trying to make everyone feel like a "warfighter." Do your job no matter what it is, take pride in it and carry on!

I agree too much energy was spent on this, and it takes a 'special' kind of person to feel like a warfighter in NWUs, but I disagree that servicemembers should just live with an uncomfortable, non-functional uniform and associated strict wear regulations. In the end, if fit, pocket location, and wear restrictions were the biggest complaint of dungarees, all that could be fixed very easily without spending millions dollars.

 

[Jim123]

... a unique 'battle' uniform that no one else * can have...

* Except the Georgians.

 

[Hotdogs]

Of course, if the Marine Corps didn't wank, bitch, and moan about other services copying their pattern then maybe this mess would've been resolved a long time ago?

That doesn't excuse the other services from going full retard on their designs but to remove all culpability from the Corps is a little disingenuous in and of itself.

Again, why the fuck does the Navy even need a new camo? The only people who should possibly complaining is the Army. Multicam was available at the time they chose the ACU design...and guess what they're using in AFG now?

...but yet it's our fault. Bitch please. We had a need - the Navy or the Air Force did not. The Army chose a shotty design. Shit happens. Run away money and massive public support were also culprits. The SECDEF at the time should've squashed all of this and made everyone use the CADPAT design.

 

[insanebikerboy]

Again, why the fuck does the Navy even need a new camo? The only people who should possibly complaining is the Army. Multicam was available at the time they chose the ACU design...and guess what they're using in AFG now?

...but yet it's our fault. Bitch please. We had a need - the Navy or the Air Force did not. The Army chose a shotty design. Shit happens. Run away money and massive public support were also culprits. The SECDEF at the time should've squashed all of this and made everyone use the CADPAT design.

I never said it was entirely the Marines fault. What I did say, and regardless of why the other branches wanted camouflage, is the Marines basically wouldn't share their ball with the other kids.

Again, doesn't excuse the other branches designing stupid stuff but, as we would say in Naval Aviation, it was a contributing factor.

 

[Flash]

Again, why the fuck does the Navy even need a new camo?

A new camo uniform? No, but a new 'working' uniform? Yes. Frankly I think e6b has a great point, I think the Coasties got it right with their simple ODUs.

......Has anyone mentioned the Coast Guard? Their working uniforms are sensible, comfortable, and not too bad looking. Crazy.

They even got to keep ball caps.

but yet it's our fault.......

I ain't blaming the Marines for any of the rest of the services uniform fiascoes, but they certainly aren't helping things when they are so parochial about 'their' design that they get their panties in a twist because the Navy desert cammies are kind of close to the Marines ones and the result is sailors wearing green in the desert.

.......The SECDEF at the time should've squashed all of this and made everyone use the CADPAT design.

Agree!

 

[BusyBee604]

...and before that...

Like a boss. If it ain't broke...

This was literally, the most comfortable uniform I ever wore. Cost about $40, was machine washable and required near 0 maintenance, fire retardant, flash burn resistant and you could use it to float...What was the problem again?

The most sensible post on this thread. I wore these 'threads' from boot camp, for 4 years until preflight, and they were comfy, durable, and with/without bell bottoms, distinguished you as a proud USN Sailor. The 'Sailor Suit' disintegration began with introduction of the CPO style blue jacket, white shirt and tie w/ bridge cap in the early '70s, when from a short distance, you couldn't tell an E-3 from a Chief. It has continued downhill since, with a huge increase in cost, stowage space requirements, and Sailor dissatisfaction. At least the crackerjack/white hat hasn't been deep-sixed, YET!

Weren't broke...but they dun fixed 'em anyway!

The NWUs were more about looking like "warfighters" - you know, because everyone is one.....

Our Sailors have bled and died in blue dungarees & chambray shirts through countless conflicts this century an last, and did not need 'groundpounder cammys' to look like, or prove themselves "warfighters"!
BzB

 

[jcj]

View attachment 12524

Word on the street was that in a pinch you could actually use parts of this uniform to float in the water if the situation arose...

Yes - take them off, get them completely wet in the water, then tie the ends of the pant legs to occlude them (didn't tie them together just tied each leg shut individually), then hold them over your head by the waist band and smartly bring them down on the water. Traps air in the (tied off) legs for a good while & it acts like a pair of water wings. When the air leaks out, repeat as needed. It actually worked quite well in the pool. no idea how it would work in the ocean.

We had to be able to do this to pass the swim test in boot camp circa. 1977.

 

[xj220]

We did the same thing during API water survival a couple years ago. This uniform debacle is an embarrassment overall and a total waste of money. I agree with the idea of having three or four different cammo patterns that are universal for the services and dependent on the theater. Makes it much simpler and cost effective and most importantly, tactically sound.

 

[Spekkio]

Again, why the fuck does the Navy even need a new camo? The only people who should possibly complaining is the Army. Multicam was available at the time they chose the ACU design...and guess what they're using in AFG now?

...but yet it's our fault. Bitch please. We had a need - the Navy or the Air Force did not...

First, it sounds like everyone is bitching about the USMC's possessiveness in general, not just for the Navy. I specifically mentioned that the Army spent 10's of millions of dollars to develop an independent solution to what the USMC already had in part because the USMC didn't like sharing.

Second, the Navy did need a new working uniform. I listed multiple reasons why Sailors didn't like utilities on the previous page. I'm sure there's more but having never worn them, those are the 4 I constantly got an earful about. Since the Navy was developing a new uniform, they chose digital camoflauge because it would solve complaint #4 I listed on the previous page by looking more military-esque and because it would fit in with the other services' battle uniforms better than jeans and a t-shirt or a blue jump suit. They chose blue so that paint spots and grease -- things that come with working on a ship -- wouldn't stand out. This is to solve complaint #2 regarding overly restrictive wear regulations and allow Sailors to wear the uniform in public after a day's work in-port without looking like a complete bag of ass.

Yea, blue camoflauge might have missed the forest for the trees in the looking like a bag of ass dept, but that's the reason for it. Whether you or even the Commandant of the USMC thinks that's good enough justification to wear camoflauge is immaterial; Navy flag officers think that we should wear it, so they ought to have unrestricted access to the pattern like all the other armed services.

Third, does it really matter why the Navy wanted camoflauge? Patenting a camoflauge pattern is like patenting the color green.

 

[ea6bflyr]

But how would the Navy Exchange corner the market on said uniform and make money?

 

[phrogdriver]

To summarize:

All services had cammies that were identical, save for accessories, for decades, and everyone was fine with it.

The two services that are primarily ground-oriented needed new cammies by the late '90s.

The Marine Corps was first. It adopted a decent pattern.

Since that time, the Corps has been a bunch of dicks insisting that everyone else's designs couldn't be anything like theirs.

The Navy and Air Force were doing just fine with what they had. Worst case for those in ground combat jobs, the Navy should have been able to borrow the pattern from its fellow sea service and the Air Force should have used the Army's. Instead, they made everything worse by wanting their own toys too.

The Army has completely fucked up the process from start to finish.

Multicam is the most effective camouflage out there. Why doesn't everyone just get that in different colors for each theater?

Oh yeah, wearing deserts in Lejeune and woodlands in Pendleton is stupid, no matter what time of year it is.