exNavyOffRec
Well-Known Member
I would ask some of the past ROTC guys here but I believe you have to have a scholarship (2, 3, 4 year) in order to commission and go active duty.
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ROTC or OCS for a Flight Spot
- Thread starter Eric-97
- Start date
I would ask some of the past ROTC guys here but I believe you have to have a scholarship (2, 3, 4 year) in order to commission and go active duty.
You'd need to apply to be a college program student. Head over to the NROTC subsection and do a little reading.
exNavyOffRec
Well-Known Member
Why pay people to go to college and into an OCS program when you have plenty of people applying anyway.
WEGL12
VT-28
Is it gone for good now? I know back in 2010 when I got selected into BDCP it was going to be suspended but I never saw anything new about it. It truly was one of those programs that seemed too good to be true.
@Eric-97, back when I transferred to Auburn I was in a similar situation that you are currently in. I couldn't decided between NROTC or OCS. I ended up applying for a three year NROTC scholarship and applying for OCS (this was back when BDCP was still active so you could apply 3 years before graduation). I always wanted to fly but I also knew I would be happy in the Navy if the flying didn't work out and I ended up SWO. I got selected for BDCP which was the only reason I didn't go NROTC.
Since BDCP is no longer available, I would recommend NROTC. I know you aren't locked into an aviation spot but it's nice having college paid for and having a guaranteed job after graduation. Most people picked up aviation that put it #1 their senior year. There were a few exceptions but I think they were mostly medical related issues. To top it off you will meet a ton of people through the unit and while on summer cruise (you meet people at OCS as well but it seems NROTC/academy guys knew a lot more people because of summer cruise).
If you do decide OCS, you can still take the naval science classes. I think I took 5 of the 8 classes required by the midshipmen. Also talk to the staff about participating in some of the unit events since you plan to attend OCS. The Auburn staff let me attend any of the guest lectures or special events they had and I could do morning PT with them for a while until a concern with insurance liability came up. They also invited me to the Navy Ball but I decided not to go because I didn't have a uniform during college.
One last thing, I can't speak for all schools but Auburn's unit required drill twice a week and I believe the entire unit met one morning for PT each month (freshman met twice a week until the first PFA). That's not a lot of extra time commitment. You will still enjoy the college experience. I went out a lot during college and normally I would be drinking with people in the unit. No one ever said NROTC held them back from college life.
Spekkio
He bowls overhand.
I disagree with your reasoning for making the decision, which is that you are choosing one path over another just because you perceive it to be easier. What is going to give you the best chance of being a pilot in any route is to get good grades in college and stay out of trouble.
The posters before you were talking about people with 2.8 GPAs. That's a B- average at most universities...not a bad grade here and there from a tough class, an average. If you average a B- in college, you're doing something very wrong and it's most likely that you are blowing off class and/or assignments thinking you can just cram for midterms and the final. You certainly shouldn't be planning on getting a B- GPA before you even step foot on campus and you shouldn't be basing your decision on needing to be saved by your NROTC unit; do your school work, don't break the law and this all becomes a non-factor in your decision process.
Some posters have provided anecdotal evidence that you will get pilot if you write it down on your preference list. That might be absolutely true in 2014. I will tell you my anecdotal evidence that I attended nuke school in '08 with quite a few NROTC and USNA grads who really didn't want to be there.
None of us can predict the environment in 2018 or the preferences of the classmates at your unit...what you need to ask yourself is whether you are happy to serve in any capacity in return for scholarship money, or would you rather foot the college bill so that you don't risk getting voluntold to go interview in D.C. for submarines.
WEGL12
VT-28
Just to clarify something I left out in my original post, NROTC will not guarantee anything except a commission as an officer. I originally made it sound like everyone who put pilot first gets it, which isn't good gouge because it constantly changes. Spekkio had good points, go into college prepared to work to get good grades and stay out of trouble. That's pretty much all you can do to give yourself the best chance to get selected regardless of the commissioning source.
Having been in the Navy long enough to see several personnel cycles and heard of many more from my predecessors I can honestly say that you can't predict the future, and that definitely includes commissioning opportunities in the US Navy. Trying to 'game' whether OCS or ROTC may give you a better chance at being a Pilot may work out but often does not. In four years there may be very few aviator slots for OCS, or for ROTC, or just very few slots period. Or the Navy may need officers so badly that when you find out that you are medically DQ'd for aviation, after OCS graduation due to something so obscure that it takes you 20 minutes of Googling to figure out what it is, that the Navy keeps you in as a SUPPO. Or the economy goes in the crapper again and getting an OCS pilot slot takes a 3.97 GPA in Aeronautical Engineering or Astrophysics while the ROTC Business major with a 2.8 walks out of school on the way to Pensacola with a pilot slot because he got his 3 year scholarship before the crash of '17. Those are just a few of the countless scenarios you could find yourself in four or five years from now.
Even if you get a aviation slot there is no guarantee that you will make it through training, you could find out that you suck at being a pilot. That is when you find out what everyone was saying about being an officer first.
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What Flash said.
You're not the first to be lured by the "OCS gets you a guaranteed flight billet" idea. Don't focus so much on what is "guaranteed" or "better chance", because as has been illustrated, nothing's guaranteed and chances are impossible to asses.
If you want to talk about guarantees - ROTC contract means you'll graduate with no student debt and a guaranteed job. Right now you're probably looking at that and thinking, yeah, but what if it's not my dream job? It's still a job, and those are getting harder and harder to come by for new grads. Very, very few are graduating and finding a job in any field. It's not like the movies where your hat hits the ground and the next week you're VP of Social Media with a bitchin' Manhattan loft. You're more likely to be working a very low-paid, disposable job and a couple hundred grand in the hole. By comparison, even being a Shoe isn't too bad. Any officer job in the Navy is reliable, well-paid, good on a resume, great benefits, and gets you training and experience.
So in short, by dismissing ROTC as an option, you're rolling the bones on what you'll be interested in and qualified for - and how many dudes OCS will be taking - a few years from now. If ROTC doesn't pan out and you want to keep OCS in mind as another way into a commission, fine, but just not trying for it because you think it's a better chance to get exactly what you want is poor headwork in several ways.
You're not the first to be lured by the "OCS gets you a guaranteed flight billet" idea. Don't focus so much on what is "guaranteed" or "better chance", because as has been illustrated, nothing's guaranteed and chances are impossible to asses.
If you want to talk about guarantees - ROTC contract means you'll graduate with no student debt and a guaranteed job. Right now you're probably looking at that and thinking, yeah, but what if it's not my dream job? It's still a job, and those are getting harder and harder to come by for new grads. Very, very few are graduating and finding a job in any field. It's not like the movies where your hat hits the ground and the next week you're VP of Social Media with a bitchin' Manhattan loft. You're more likely to be working a very low-paid, disposable job and a couple hundred grand in the hole. By comparison, even being a Shoe isn't too bad. Any officer job in the Navy is reliable, well-paid, good on a resume, great benefits, and gets you training and experience.
So in short, by dismissing ROTC as an option, you're rolling the bones on what you'll be interested in and qualified for - and how many dudes OCS will be taking - a few years from now. If ROTC doesn't pan out and you want to keep OCS in mind as another way into a commission, fine, but just not trying for it because you think it's a better chance to get exactly what you want is poor headwork in several ways.
FormerRecruitingGuru
Making Recruiting Great Again
Everyone's a Naval Officer first, then Pilot/NFO/SWO/etc. second. If you don't walk into NROTC with that mentality and end up either medically DQ'd or simply not selected for Aviation, you're going to set yourself up to fail big time. As an NROTC alum, I've seen folks join NROTC for that same reason for the "best possibility" of going Pilot.
Long and behold, that year ends up being when the demand for Pilots is at its lowest with many folks having a 3.0 + GPA and 50/6/6/6 + ASTB scores not getting selected. Some folks eventually settled on other programs (NFO, SWO, Nuke, etc.), but others decided to drop out and having to pay back the Navy for tuition paid.
Long and behold, that year ends up being when the demand for Pilots is at its lowest with many folks having a 3.0 + GPA and 50/6/6/6 + ASTB scores not getting selected. Some folks eventually settled on other programs (NFO, SWO, Nuke, etc.), but others decided to drop out and having to pay back the Navy for tuition paid.
Meh. Tomato, tomahto. But seriously, I get the distinction. As someone who had to earn my scholarship back and didn't get it until half-way through my sophomore year, I couldn't remember "when" the actual sign away was.
I hate chances when they're asses.
Spekkio
He bowls overhand.
The only guarantees in life are death and taxes. Maybe guarantee is too strong of a word in this discussion... if selected for OCS, OP will know that he will commission as a 13xx as long as he passes his flight physical and passes the training. If selected for an NROTC scholarship, OP will know that his school is paid for and he will commission as an officer provided that he stays healthy, does decent in school, and keeps his nose clean.
Having said that, if I had a rewind button and knew about NROTC scholarships as a H.S. senior, I would have taken it. It would've meant that I could have attended my first choice of university, which I passed on because $40k/year to attend college was infeasible. There are positives and negatives to serving in any officer designator and as long as OP focuses on what makes the job interesting and the career opportunities ahead instead of focusing on how he should've been a pilot, he'll be fine. Besides, I've encountered pilots who managed to stay flying in the cockpit through O-5 and pilots who haven't seen a cockpit past their initial sea tour.
Whoa there...the rate of unemployment for recent college grads is 8.5% and underemployment is 16.8%. While both numbers are substantial, I wouldn't classify either scenario as 'likely.' Like anything else, it's up to OP to use his time wisely in college.
exNavyOffRec
Well-Known Member
What I like to look at is the participation rate, it isn't screwed with like the unemployment rate has.
http://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS11300000
You're going to lock yourself in with ROTC, regardless of the service with which it's associated. You sign on the dotted line and then don't get that flight slot and find yourself running damage control drills onboard an FFG...then you'll be kicking yourself.
Navy and Marine Corps OCS programs give you the opportunity to apply for the job you want. If you get denied, the Air Force and Army have similar programs. And don't forget that the Reserves and Guard have their own setup if all else fails. Furthermore, Navy and Air Force color vision tests are different. Some people can pass one and not the other.
As for college debt, there are plenty of scholarships out there.
Navy and Marine Corps OCS programs give you the opportunity to apply for the job you want. If you get denied, the Air Force and Army have similar programs. And don't forget that the Reserves and Guard have their own setup if all else fails. Furthermore, Navy and Air Force color vision tests are different. Some people can pass one and not the other.
As for college debt, there are plenty of scholarships out there.
Spekkio
He bowls overhand.
You just linked participation data for everyone 16 and over. This includes people still in high school as well as retirees. We're concerned about college graduates aged 22-25 here. Unfortunately, the site doesn't allow you to filter by both age 20-24 and college graduate. The first age group that allows that is age 25 or older. It also doesn't allow you to filter out just bachelor's degrees - it says bachelor's or higher.
FormerRecruitingGuru
Making Recruiting Great Again
I think we scared the 17 year old kid already. He's going to enlist in the National Guard now.