I want to be clear without saying things we can't say, but this appears to largely be a matter of luck and positioning than a preference for one community over another.
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Romeos Vs. Sierras
- Thread starter Sailor_Dave_99
- Start date
Fair enough, you’re more in the know than I am. I stand by the rest of what I said.
No one should take it personally. This topic has been beaten to death over the years on these forums and the consensus is usually about the same.
A decade ago, my main beef with HSC was that all of us students at the time were told HSC pilots got to do cool SEAL stuff and CSAR. No one picked Romeos over Sierras. I didn’t. Then I got to the fleet, saw how awesome HSM was and how many (most?) of my HSC friends were disappointed with their experience in HSC. If people are getting the honest truth in HTs now that HSCs real focus is VERTREP and Starboard D and that is what a student wants, I’m all for it. Students just need realistic expectations about what they’ll actually be doing in either fleet…and for the record, shooting at Houthis is an unlikely occurrence for anyone, HSM or HSC.
HSC’s issues are slowly improving as we move past the influence of people who started out as something besides HSC.
I think this is a fair take. But for what it's worth, while I haven't done any of those things in combat, I have routinely trained with SEALS, and guys in my squadron on this tour have also worked with Marine SPECWAR and USCG teams. We practice HVBSS frequently; we TERF frequently. We shoot less often than I like but the profiles themselves are a lot of fun to fly and you get to basically practice those whenever you want.
And, everyone says "Starboard D," but let's be honest: it's a 20 mile ring where you also get to do SSC or whatever the new hotness name is for that, so it's the same thing you guys are doing but with a smaller leash during FW flight OPS.
Oh, and I have a rescue from Plane Guard so, I mean, things did work out for me in that sense.
With all that said: I did tell studs when I was in the HTs the above was all and will remain true for a while, but R's are the future and where Rotary Wing aviation will continue to trend towards until FVL as far as I can tell. Nonetheless, the less sexy jobs of VERTREP, SAR, and generic logistics (and nowadays "combat logistics") are a lot of fun to fly and aren't going away anytime soon and the S is a far superior platform for those missions.
Absolutely…and ironically the most fun missions I did in the R were logistics, pax transfers and MEDEVACs.
All done during GWOT.
The problem right now, and what a student should try to understand, is that everything is in flux. For now, all "we" have to go off is what was done during a war. Both (or all three back in the day) communities didn't just train with all of those individuals, but worked operationally with them. Over time, the "man with a rifle in your helo" has transitioned to going and finding something and then shooting it with your weapons system(s). Both communities have the capability, but for now, we don't know how likely it is for either to do it more than the other (though I'd argue the Sierra is hard pressed to do it effectively without a Romeo to help). With Yemen, we seem to be transitioning back to using a third party in the helo again, at least sometimes, as well.
I want to argue with @IKE's post, because I think the "smart" choice is to go HSM, but really, his post is good gouge. The much harder decision for a stud is to even know what he thinks he might like, given the lack of real-world knowledge or experience of what that stuff really means.
This is all so true. It turned out that some of the missions I thought I'd like I find boring or not worth the mission planning. Then, even more ironically, as a DH having taken a break from 60s for a while (HTs + Disassociated Tour), I found other missions I didn't like as a JO to suddenly be more fun (in fairness, some of the tactics changed, and the attitude about them as well).
At the end of the day though - the one thing I thought was true about S's was how much stick and rudder flying there was. It took me a while to get good at it, but I know I'm good and it's made flying really enjoyable. Every day there is some element and talent needed of stick and rudder; meanwhile, when I hear HSM guys talk, it's about putting on an altitude hold and using their gucci equipment - often to great strategic importance - but I think I'd get bored with that.
A good example - my roommate during the FRS was a HSM FRP as well. I did a mountain flying / day TERF card through the mountains in San Diego, and got so stoked about my community. Loved every second of the flight. He had a mountain flying card coming up in a few weeks and was pumped after my description. He came home dejected and pissed off though - gets in the bird after having planned and briefed a route - and his FRS IP was just like "yeah, nice job man, but we're just going to go up to 4000-5000 over the water to feel how the bird handles at that altitude. We don't do any of that stuff and I don't feel comfortable in the mountains. Never done it, and won't teach it to you either." That was a pretty solidifying moment for me to think I made the right choice for me.
Operational flying, I can certainly get that. But there's still plenty of stick and rudder in either community, especially depending on where you're stationed. Some of that may also be a result of the aircraft being a tattle-tale when it was already very easy to get into trouble in a fatty aircraft.
I'd love to know who that IP was. There's always going to be those guys everywhere and that's unfortunate. Now that the community has matured, it seems like there's much more willingness and excitement about flying that kind of stuff, at least from the West Coast guys that have the terrain to play in.
One huge problem I've always had with HSL and HSM is how compartmentalized it was/is. I've heard "We never do that..." on more than one occasion, often right before I'd raise my hand and say, "I have on deployment x."
Not just an HSL/HSM thing, it’s always blown me away how people assume that if they didn’t do it or haven’t heard of it, it must not have ever happened and you’re probably lying about how you did it.
That IP sucked then. I loved flying in East County and taking the students out there. That was one of the better FRS flights.
Got plenty of good stick and rudder time in HSM, so I’d say the whole “HSM just uses altitude hold and nerds out” is also caricature.
Do we fly as aggressively as you all when we VERTREP or TERF? No. But you will actually fly the aircraft in any helicopter. More so than you do in some fixed wing communities.
What a nerd lol
That's good to hear. I've kept in touch with him (I mean... he's literally one of my best friends) and his descriptions of his flying largely match that caricature - albeit - to his credit - he's been exped the whole time and I know he's had to land on some way more challenging boats in worse seas throughout his time.
