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Revised Afghan ROE...

wink

War Hoover NFO.
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
I guess the Supreme Court needs to hit the books then, since they have ruled that the prisoners in Gitmo have many of the same rights that US citizens have in the courts. Anyone in our regular court system is afforded the same rights, citizen or not.
No need for the Supreme Court to hit the books. How about they reference the Constitution on occasion. Just because a few Supreme Court Justices say something does not make it right or Constitutional in and of itself. It simply makes it the law of the land.

It is because the Court gave Gitmo detainees access to the civil U.S. court system that we may now have soldiers reading Miranda Rights( I don't believe it personally). In any case. A foreign fighter trying to kill our soldiers on foreign soil will now be tried in a U.S. court for, what, attempted murder? And how can you make that case? Anyone who has watched TV crime shows, let alone know the law and criminal procedure, knows it will be next to impossible to convict and continue to detain anyone taken into custody under battlefield circumstances. So they walk. The succesful prosectuions you refer to were, in fact, criminal terrorist cases, not battlefield cases. I can't understand why it was OK to hold German, and Italian prisoners on U.S. soil, who fought in uniform, and with in the Geneva Conventions, for the duration of WW II without access to civil courts w/in the U.S., but it is not OK to hold combatants outside the U.S. who do not comply with the Conventions w/o access to civil courts. I don't remember reading that distinction in the majority opinion.
 

HH-60H

Manager
pilot
Contributor
In 1787 when the United States drafted its constitution for a democratic government of the people, for the people and by the people, Professor Alexander Tyler (University of Edinborough –circa 1787) wrote about the stages of birth and death of democracy. According Alexander Tyler it takes an average of two hundred years for a democracy to mature, reach its crescendo and then revert back to bondage.

There are eight stages of democracy he observed:

From bondage to spiritual faith;

From spiritual faith to great courage;

From courage to liberty;

From liberty to abundance;

From abundance to complacency;

From complacency to apathy;

From apathy to dependence;

From dependence back into bondage.

Nascent democracies in the past have had growing problems and trouble getting off the ground. Some countries have sea-sawed between autocracy and democracy (e.g. Pakistan). Iraq is struggling against all odds to provide freedom to its people after the fall of a brutal totalitarian dictator. Russia is still experimenting with its newly found freedom. Germany suffered set backs from fascism earlier in the 20th century. Japan emerged a free country after its monarchy. Iran’s theocracy has a strong hold on its people thought there is a ground swell of discontent as people yearn for more freedom.

Yet, world’s oldest democracies appear to be suffering form apathy, an insidious process that can have disastrous consequences. The democracy in United States is in the process of creating a dependency class because of voter complacency and apathy. Americans who cherish their liberty are now seeing it slowly being eroded by the government that they elected and created. Most defenders of democracy feel that democracy needs to be defended constantly. It cannot be taken for granted. It needs to be protected, nurtured, improved on and then passed on to the next generation.

The democratic process is a gamut that hits many bumps in its long journey. There are times when it looks hopeless and to be withering. But once the people have tasted freedom, it is hard to take it away. Unfortunately, the obstacles that prevent democracy from blooming, sometimes last for generations. Generations of people around the world have endured autocracy and dictatorship, totalitarianism, fascism, monarchy, oligarchy and even anarchy without knowing freedom.

The United States government and democracy has been in peril many times in its history. Many of its leaders and presidents were unsure about maintaining democracy and liberty during their tenures. Abraham Lincoln who avoided a division of his country into north and south had lamented, “I am struggling to maintain the government, not to overthrow it. I am struggling especially to prevent others from overthrowing it.” John F. Kennedy in his State of the Union address on January 30, 1961 said, “Before my term has ended, we shall have to test anew whether a nation organized and governed as such as ours can endure. The outcome is by no means certain.” There always has been a pessimism regarding the endurance of democracy over many centuries.

Winston Churchill, in his speech to the House of Commons on November 11, 1947 said,

“Many forms of Government have been tried, and will be tried in this world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed, it has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government except al those other forms that have been tried from time to time.”

– Neria Harish Hebbar, MD

Not a perfect match, but pretty close:

http://www.snopes.com/politics/ballot/athenian.asp
http://www.lorencollins.net/tytler.html
 

Jim123

DD-214 in hand and I'm gonna party like it's 1998
pilot
Bump

Western airstrikes kill fewer Afghan civilians (Associated Press link)
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/as_afghanistan_airstrikes

Recap- the revised strategy put huge emphasis on minimized civilian casualties and collateral damage. Now some time has gone by and there is some quantitative data and some anecdotal data. A few thoughts:


The story supports the strategy but it doesn't necessarily validate it (still too soon to validate it).

I would hesitate to over-analyze this one way or the other using only open-source information- too many what-ifs and whys, but, this is definitely an worthy topic to follow no matter what information you have access to.

There is a quote from an Afghan grape farmer in the story. So, is his version of the facts in there because we led the press to him, because the press found him on their own, because the other side "wanted" him to be found and it is some sort of bizarre Taliban MILDEC plan? Who knows, my bet is take it at face value and the guy is just happy to see less crossfire.

Think we'll see a followup good story about more and better HUMINT tips resulting from the strategy, or maybe a bad story about some really important bad guy so-in-so barely getting away because we broke contact under revised ROE? Who knows but I won't over-analyze it if and when that time comes :)

There's some basic cause-and-effect analysis at the bottom of the article. I don't outright discount the mainstream media but anything they have to say I take with a grain of salt.

Last, I'm glad to see any good press about our boys over there.
 
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