He and his good work are specifically mentioned in the book Clashes though not by name (no one is in the book). One big difference though, he was a lot closer to the action.
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Really??: Ten Thousand Feet and Ten Thousand Miles (A UAV Article)
- Thread starter ea6bflyr
- Start date
He and his good work are specifically mentioned in the book Clashes though not by name (no one is in the book). One big difference though, he was a lot closer to the action.
Blind Man's Bluff... Good read. I was at ONI (Submarine Warfare Operations Research Division) when that book came out. Was an interesting few weeks.
http://www.amazon.com/Blind-Mans-Bl...MLGK/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1360891326&sr=8-2
At least bubbleheads do not share the same mental defect (ie, the tendency to flap their traps and tell the world how special they are) that some of our SOF forces have exhibited in the previous couple of years. They seem to have forgotten the term, Quiet Professional.
Well now I am pissed! I don’t begrudge these guys a medal. But higher than a Bronze Star? YHGTBSM!!!!!
I few 197 combat missions in Southeast Asia. Granted some were easy BARCAPS. And some were CAS with light to moderate enemy fire. However the bulk of my missions were over the North with its intense enemy fire of multiple SAMs and AAA, not to mention MiGs. It was intense and we lost a lot of good people... something not at risk in a remote drone trailer.
I flew a number of times over and near Haiphong. I also flew a number of times - maybe too many - downtown to Hanoi, the most heavily defended city in the world they said at the time. I watched too many aircraft and crews die, or perhaps hopefully captured. While my hat is always off the the grunts on the ground and their more up-close-and-personal combat, as far as the air war, we were in the thick of it! Nevertheless the job was more important than medals (regardless of what Napoleon once said).
For all this, my highest award was one Air Medal, and 11 Strike Flight Air Medals.
I am fine with that. And proud. But I had better not see someone wearing one of those gift drone medals, ever. Indeed if I had one, I would be embarrassed to wear it. And I wouldn't.
BTW, the Presidential Unit Citation I’m told is equivalent to the Navy Cross. I have the PUC - it resides below my Air Medal - but while rare and special, it is not quite a NC.
And the cost..... This drone medal is a slap in the face to these guys, or their families if they didn't return.
I few 197 combat missions in Southeast Asia. Granted some were easy BARCAPS. And some were CAS with light to moderate enemy fire. However the bulk of my missions were over the North with its intense enemy fire of multiple SAMs and AAA, not to mention MiGs. It was intense and we lost a lot of good people... something not at risk in a remote drone trailer.
I flew a number of times over and near Haiphong. I also flew a number of times - maybe too many - downtown to Hanoi, the most heavily defended city in the world they said at the time. I watched too many aircraft and crews die, or perhaps hopefully captured. While my hat is always off the the grunts on the ground and their more up-close-and-personal combat, as far as the air war, we were in the thick of it! Nevertheless the job was more important than medals (regardless of what Napoleon once said).
For all this, my highest award was one Air Medal, and 11 Strike Flight Air Medals.
I am fine with that. And proud. But I had better not see someone wearing one of those gift drone medals, ever. Indeed if I had one, I would be embarrassed to wear it. And I wouldn't.
BTW, the Presidential Unit Citation I’m told is equivalent to the Navy Cross. I have the PUC - it resides below my Air Medal - but while rare and special, it is not quite a NC.
And the cost..... This drone medal is a slap in the face to these guys, or their families if they didn't return.
Absolute fucking HORSE SHIT!
I barely feel I rate a fucking air medal for flying a P-3 over Iraq just enough times to get one. But at least I was deployed and living in a big tent (for a little while). Those Cadillacs were pretty awful too.
I got nothing against drone guys. They are a great tool and no doubt an asset to this nation. But if I ever see one sporting this abortion of a medal, well FUCK HIM!
Or maybe I've had too much beer tonight. it is thankgiving after all!
edit: er, make that Valentines day...
I barely feel I rate a fucking air medal for flying a P-3 over Iraq just enough times to get one. But at least I was deployed and living in a big tent (for a little while). Those Cadillacs were pretty awful too.
I got nothing against drone guys. They are a great tool and no doubt an asset to this nation. But if I ever see one sporting this abortion of a medal, well FUCK HIM!
Or maybe I've had too much beer tonight. it is thankgiving after all!
edit: er, make that Valentines day...
I think I found a copy of the write up.
FYI. It's also making the rounds on FB. Although I think it's a bit gray whether AD types should be participating, I'm not afraid to say I signed it.
Previous petitions make me question it's credibility but what else are we to do?
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/lower-precedence-new-distinguished-warfare-medal/5KdnkBBN
Previous petitions make me question it's credibility but what else are we to do?
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/lower-precedence-new-distinguished-warfare-medal/5KdnkBBN
I don't see where participating in this poll would negatively affect AD personnel, as it's not really endorsing or espousing any political position. Personally, I won't participate, as I am leery of any website where you have to create an account, thereby giving e-mail address & possibly additional personal info, just to cast a vote in a poll... but that's just suspicious ol' BusyBee!
BzB
It's a sad state whan a chair-based 'droneviator' award would trump your NMCM Citation (especially with the combat"V" authorization). All a result of the prevailing "everbody gotta be equally rewarded" generation.
BzB
Dogpatch09
Member
So I play a bunch of videogames, which is hitting a button and watching a screen viewing people in other countries die. Can I have a medal now?
Eh. I get what everyone is saying here and I do take issue with the fact that it's ranked in precedence above the Bronze Star. I don't think anyone is saying that part is a good idea.
But as far as awards go, I have a bigger problem with awards being handed out like candy for administrative BS. How many people are there with three rows of ribbons for "I'm not sure what"? You did a good job as the OIC on a really tuff det? Put yourself in for a NAM!
Go on deployment? You may not rate a campaign ribbon, but we'll make sure to get you a sea service ribbon and backfill you with a GWOT expeditionary just for being there. Finish off a tour of duty without banging the help or getting a DUI? Well- you, sir, rate a medal of some variety. Heck, if you join the military these days, you get not one, but two medals along with your sharp-looking uniform.
You almost never see awards that are directly related to combat performance-- or at least, they're far rarer than the administrative variety. I know plenty of dudes who've strafed in support of troops in contact or dropped bombs and killed a half-dozen or so terrorists. I'm sure someone has gotten an award for that, but it's far less frequent than, say, for planning a holiday party.
So to bring it all full circle- I don't have a problem with giving awards out to drone pilots, because at least these awards are given for killing al-Qaeda, regardless of whatever personal danger they're in. I guarantee you that if every squadron emphasized awarding outstanding performance and punishing buffoonery in combat, we'd all be a hell of a lot better at the mission.
But as far as awards go, I have a bigger problem with awards being handed out like candy for administrative BS. How many people are there with three rows of ribbons for "I'm not sure what"? You did a good job as the OIC on a really tuff det? Put yourself in for a NAM!
Go on deployment? You may not rate a campaign ribbon, but we'll make sure to get you a sea service ribbon and backfill you with a GWOT expeditionary just for being there. Finish off a tour of duty without banging the help or getting a DUI? Well- you, sir, rate a medal of some variety. Heck, if you join the military these days, you get not one, but two medals along with your sharp-looking uniform.
You almost never see awards that are directly related to combat performance-- or at least, they're far rarer than the administrative variety. I know plenty of dudes who've strafed in support of troops in contact or dropped bombs and killed a half-dozen or so terrorists. I'm sure someone has gotten an award for that, but it's far less frequent than, say, for planning a holiday party.
So to bring it all full circle- I don't have a problem with giving awards out to drone pilots, because at least these awards are given for killing al-Qaeda, regardless of whatever personal danger they're in. I guarantee you that if every squadron emphasized awarding outstanding performance and punishing buffoonery in combat, we'd all be a hell of a lot better at the mission.
This is misdirected effort, IMO. As I've said in other threads, people will get more traction by getting their ideas noticed in the various trade publications vice the White House website. This is ultimately an OSD policy anyway. Time to adjust fire.
I don't disagree with you...I'll admit to feeling a bit like this guy and saying WTF.
Come on gents, all this brouhaha over precedence, etc...Reality on the ground?
The guy that actually sports this medal/ribbon is going to get the "oh, you're one of them" looks from the rest of the crowd.
No one outside of the community is going to know what that fucking thing means anyway.
Whup dee shit.
The guy that actually sports this medal/ribbon is going to get the "oh, you're one of them" looks from the rest of the crowd.
No one outside of the community is going to know what that fucking thing means anyway.
Whup dee shit.
Until he writes on an application "Received Nation's third highest decoration for conduct in combat..." And gets the job you applied for.
Marketable prestige etc...outside the community is precisely where it matters.