Racism in the Military

[nittany03]

Oh ya forgot that got brought back.

Honestly, if I were CNO for a day, I'd not only shitcan the officer photo, but redact all names from the records before they're briefed. Make everyone just a social security number/DOD ID. If race and gender shouldn't matter, get rid of them completely. If you passed your PRT and PHA, why does it matter what you look like? World-class symphony orchestras audition their members behind a screen, and so does the DC Marine Band. Because what matters isn't anything but who the most talented musician is. So why don't we brief records "behind a screen," so to speak?

 

[picklesuit]

Honestly, if I were CNO for a day, I'd not only shitcan the officer photo, but redact all names from the records before they're briefed. Make everyone just a social security number/DOD ID. If race and gender shouldn't matter, get rid of them completely. If you passed your PRT and PHA, why does it matter what you look like? World-class symphony orchestras audition their members behind a screen, and so does the DC Marine Band. Because what matters isn't anything but who the most talented musician is. So why don't we brief records "behind a screen," so to speak?

Completely agree. Also wish there was a way to remove the impact of the Officer briefing your record to the board. Having someone who has a less than full understanding of the intricacies of a platform’s career path or is just not good at public speaking can have a deleterious effect on your thirty second shot in front of the tank.

Let the record speak for itself.

 

[exNavyOffRec]

I’d say it’s probably a “consideration.”

Recruiters have quotas for minorities. I had a Hispanic recruiter tell me that he would have to send white prospects away because they only had room for minority officer candidates.

Our Company CO at TBS told us race is a “consideration” for combat arms MOS selection.

So, why not promotion?

In the USN it is not a factor for officer accessions and is not considered. The enlisted recruiters do get minority goals but they are not hard and fast, if you have a goal of 10 with 5 being minority, but you end up getting only 10 white dudes you met your goal, if you however end up recruiting 5 total people who happen to be minorities you will be getting your ass chewed for not making goal.

The USN does it right, the look at it as they need better outreach to the minority groups in order to get good qualified applicants who happen to be minority.

We should strive not just to fill a spot, but to fill it with the best person we can, if we are finding that the ranks are not representative of the community then we must do better. I never cared if the person who was my superior was male or female, or what their race was, I just want a good leader who is fair that will help us all succeed, that is what I looked for when I recruited.

 

[wink]

In the USN it is not a factor for officer accessions and is not considered. The enlisted recruiters do get minority goals but they are not hard and fast, if you have a goal of 10 with 5 being minority, but you end up getting only 10 white dudes you met your goal, if you however end up recruiting 5 total people who happen to be minorities you will be getting your ass chewed for not making goal.

The USN does it right, the look at it as they need better outreach to the minority groups in order to get good qualified applicants who happen to be minority.

We should strive not just to fill a spot, but to fill it with the best person we can, if we are finding that the ranks are not representative of the community then we must do better. I never cared if the person who was my superior was male or female, or what their race was, I just want a good leader who is fair that will help us all succeed, that is what I looked for when I recruited.

This was my experience in several years either as an officer recruiter or supporting a Recruiting District HQ. As a USNA Admissions Liaison to HS kids I have come to believe race and gender may guide a final decision as a tie breaker. I don't know that for a fact. But the quality of applicants that get to the Board are all outstanding, and rather homogeneous. You can flip a coin or look for differences in the margins. If it is looking like women are underrepresented half way through the process, the push may go to a female. That seems to be what I see. I have seen a totally awesome black female not accepted as well as outstanding Hispanics. I have never seen anyone in my slice of the world selected for USNA that wasn't top shelf. Now, the kind of officer they they turn out to be 6 years later....

 

[Gatordev]

Honestly, if I were CNO for a day, I'd not only shitcan the officer photo, but redact all names from the records before they're briefed. Make everyone just a social security number/DOD ID. If race and gender shouldn't matter, get rid of them completely. If you passed your PRT and PHA, why does it matter what you look like? World-class symphony orchestras audition their members behind a screen, and so does the DC Marine Band. Because what matters isn't anything but who the most talented musician is. So why don't we brief records "behind a screen," so to speak?

They did that, in a sense, in the mid-2000's when they did away with the photos. I don't remember if there was official reasoning on making the board race-neutral, but it was an issue in the tank at the time. I know there were instances when someone accidentally said something (can't remember if it was gender or if something came out about race) and it was then "removed" from the record of the board, ie, the jury will not take this into consideration kind of thing. Of course the "damage" was already done, but they moved on with the proceedings.

 

[xmid]

They did that, in a sense, in the mid-2000's when they did away with the photos. I don't remember if there was official reasoning on making the board race-neutral, but it was an issue in the tank at the time. I know there were instances when someone accidentally said something (can't remember if it was gender or if something came out about race) and it was then "removed" from the record of the board, ie, the jury will not take this into consideration kind of thing. Of course the "damage" was already done, but they moved on with the proceedings.

The requirement suspiciously went away when pilots were blatantly (talking about it in online groups and in wardrooms) not submitting a picture in order to 2x FOS and go to "The Show" with a hefty severance check. Marines were talking about the same thing with JPME requirements and such, as I recall.

 

[nittany03]

Now, the kind of officer they they turn out to be 6 years later....

USNA: Taking 18-year-olds with the maturity of 23-year-olds and turning them into 23-year-olds with the maturity of 18-year-olds since 1844.

 

[FinkUFreaky]

Oh ya forgot that got brought back.

YMMV,

Last year was the first year it was "mandatory" again. I never submitted a photo, I had already given my detailer intent to resign (meaning no severance regardless), and somehow I will still put O-4 on my last month in the Navy. Guess that leave will sell for a little bit more at least /

 

[BigRed389]

YMMV,

Last year was the first year it was "mandatory" again. I never submitted a photo, I had already given my detailer intent to resign (meaning no severance regardless), and somehow I will still put O-4 on my last month in the Navy. Guess that leave will sell for a little bit more at least /

Intent to resign doesn't make it to the board unless you specifically put it in there via a letter.
Or at least something to the effect is in your FITREP (ie CO crashes your scores and says it's because dude's resigning and I want to manage my average).

The board can't brief something that isn't in your Promotion board record.
I always found it a little odd that the system is set up so that community leadership needed to ask officers who are getting out and probably couldn't care less about BUPERS boards to take the time to submit a letter to PERS to not be considered in a board.

 

[Hair Warrior]

YMMV,

Last year was the first year it was "mandatory" again. I never submitted a photo, I had already given my detailer intent to resign (meaning no severance regardless), and somehow I will still put O-4 on my last month in the Navy. Guess that leave will sell for a little bit more at least /

Congrats, sir. I hope that extra money is worth the price of being banished from the JOPA

 

[FinkUFreaky]

Intent to resign doesn't make it to the board unless you specifically put it in there via a letter.
Or at least something to the effect is in your FITREP (ie CO crashes your scores and says it's because dude's resigning and I want to manage my average).

The board can't brief something that isn't in your Promotion board record.
I always found it a little odd that the system is set up so that community leadership needed to ask officers who are getting out and probably couldn't care less about BUPERS boards to take the time to submit a letter to PERS to not be considered in a board.

Yeah it's a bit silly of a system, agreed. I guess morally perhaps I should have taken the time to do that so someone else that wanted to stay in could have gotten picked. But I had already had my orders to extend to MSR with intention to spearate cut like 6 months prior to the board meeting. I honestly did not expect to see my name on the list.

We've had three people that were prior enlisted have to take action to decline O-4 since they were up for retirement and for some reason it doesn't incur any extra commitment if you are separating, but would have added a couple years to their timeline if they had promoted.

 

[taxi1]

Chief Master Sergeant of the Air Force. Strong thread.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1267572332907954177

 

[wink]

Chief Master Sergeant of the Air Force. Strong thread.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1267572332907954177

I get the point he was trying to make. But clearly he is not any of those people or he wouldn't be where he is now. He should have chosen his analogs better. All those identified refused to follow lawful orders, and/or put themselves in a position to attract police contact. Of course poor Tamir may have simply not understood the seriousness of the encounter.

 

[robav8r]

Chief Master Sergeant of the Air Force. Strong thread.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1267572332907954177

What is so strong about it?

 

[nodropinufaka]

I get the point he was trying to make. But clearly he is not any of those people or he wouldn't be where he is now. He should have chosen his analogs better. All those identified refused to follow lawful orders, and/or put themselves in a position to attract police contact. Of course poor Tamir may have simply not understood the seriousness of the encounter.

WOW

Are you joking or you’re actually being serious?