Racism in the Military

[taxi1]

I am uncomfortable giving that authority to a single person or government committee.

Well, last time we gave it to just the white people, and they used it to send a message to black people. Your opinions and even your lives don’t matter.

We should revisit the decisions, and this time make the decisions inclusive. I am betting the statues wouldn’t be there if the South hadn’t Jim Crow’ed the whole black race.

 

[wink]

Teaching history and public art are two different things.

Disagree. If it were so, I would not have been dragged to museums and historical landmarks, with public art, as part of my schooling. History taught in schools, K-12 anyway, is the product of a very few people who decided what is taught and what is on standardized tests. A handful of texts serve schools throughout the country. What TX and CA buy pretty much sets the standard. So, if an individual without the government megaphone wants to have his say regarding history, art is a pretty good highly personal way to do it. It is a method of providing an alternative view point and inspiring a discussion outside that approved by a few people that just happen to hold the power.

 

[taxi1]

...this particular argument isn’t about righting an historic wrong...

I haven’t kept up with all of the arguments on either side. My position now that I’ve actually moved past the hagiography and Lee bobbleheads and done the work on understanding the history, my own internal moral compass says these things are wrong.

 

[wink]

So who gets to decide?

I don't know really. Maybe I talked myself out of my support for moving them at all. If they are to be moved, it is not by a mob. Maybe a vote. It is "public" art.

We should revisit the decisions, and this time make the decisions inclusive. I am betting the statues wouldn’t be there if the South hadn’t Jim Crow’ed the whole black race.

You make my point. There is value in some of these by virtue of the fact they remind people how they got there. That is the history we are talking about. Some of it was deplorable. If we protect people from that, they will soon forget how bad it was, and white people will be the first. I don't think we need to encourage the white majority to forget what Jim Crow was.

 

[Treetop Flyer]

Well, last time we gave it to just the white people, and they used it to send a message to black people. Your opinions and even your lives don’t matter.

We should revisit the decisions, and this time make the decisions inclusive. I am betting the statues wouldn’t be there if the South hadn’t Jim Crow’ed the whole black race.

A lot of the statues would still be there either way. A lot of people died and there’s nothing wrong with remembering them.

 

[Pags]

Disagree. If it were so, I would not have been dragged to museums and historical landmarks, with public art, as part of my schooling. History taught in schools, K-12 anyway, is the product of a very few people who decided what is taught and what is on standardized tests. A handful of texts serve schools throughout the country. What TX and CA buy pretty much sets the standard. So, if an individual without the government megaphone wants to have his say regarding history, art is a pretty good highly personal way to do it. It is a method of providing an alternative view point and inspiring a discussion outside that approved by a few people that just happen to hold the power.

I'd differentiate between art museums and what governments put up in public spaces. And a historic landmark is also different from a statue. The 20th Maine monument at Little Round Top isn't necessary to someone's understanding of the topography of the landmark that is the Gettysburg battlefield.

If the people really want to continue to honor the war dead there are ways that can be done without celebrating the cause they died for. If that statue occupied a particular spot of historic significance than a different way to communicate the importance of that position can be found that doesn't center on a disputed statue.

The irony of the Richmond statues is that the excellent Civil War museum in Richmond does a very good job discussing the history that went into the post-bellum decisions to put up those statues.

Edit: I'd offer that a good litmus test is whether the primary purpose is to decorate, celebrate, memorialize, or educate. If decorate then styles change. If celebrate people have to decide if that's something they still want to celebrate. If memorialize that's different. A wall of names of locals who gave their last full measure is very different than a statue of one person. That's an ode to the common man. If educate then put it in a museum.

 

[KTBQ]

Can you imagine how discouraging this whole thread has got to be for someone who has been subject to racism and is considering a career in the Navy? Instead of finding commitment to address the shortcomings of the armed services and society at large in our own small ways in hopes of net positive growth, the prospective service member is instead met with denials, one or two weak-ass quibbling defenses of a cop asphyxiating a suspect to death in plain view of whoever cared to watch, and as the cherry on the sundae some lame-as-fuck civil war knowledge dick measuring.

Yeah it’s a run on sentence, what of it.

 

[RoarkJr.]

Can you imagine how discouraging this whole thread has got to be for someone who has been subject to racism and is considering a career in the Navy? Instead of finding commitment to address the shortcomings of the armed services and society at large in our own small ways in hopes of net positive growth, the prospective service member is instead met with denials, one or two weak-ass quibbling defenses of a cop asphyxiating a suspect to death in plain view of whoever cared to watch, and as the cherry on the sundae some lame-as-fuck civil war knowledge dick measuring.

Yeah it’s a run on sentence, what of it.

I would say that the pursuit of truth at risk of discomfort is more important than the ready acceptance of comfort at risk of truth.
/end response to quoted post

The more we perpetuate ideas based on radical ideologies (the “systemic racism” rhetoric, for example, which is Marxism with a wig), the more we become willing to justify atrocities (innocent business owners being beaten in the streets because I guess they’re oppressors) based on that rhetoric. Regardless of fallacy, lack of data/logic.

The media has an incentive to keep the rhetoric going. COVID coverage is losing its luster...pivot to racism.

Corporations have an incentive to keep the rhetoric going. Racism bad. Loot and riot and protest. Businesses burned. Well I’ve decided it’s justified due to systemic racism. Order BLM mask on Amazon to maximize virtue (mortality rate of the flu, woops) and watch history of Feminism on Netflix while virtue signaling about racism on tik tok via iPhone. Everyone wins. Well except for the white female business owner beat up by protestors. But she didn’t have a “black owned” sign so, oppressor I guess. NBD

The problem is that people want Equality of Outcome, when all that you’re going to get is Equality of Opportunity. We are not all built the same. But our culture does not want truth, they want to feel good.

 

[Deleted member 24525]

I would say that the pursuit of truth at risk of discomfort is more important than the ready acceptance of comfort at risk of truth.
/end response to quoted post

The more we perpetuate ideas based on radical ideologies (the “systemic racism” rhetoric, for example, which is Marxism with a wig), the more we become willing to justify atrocities (innocent business owners being beaten in the streets because I guess they’re oppressors) based on that rhetoric. Regardless of fallacy, lack of data/logic.

I’m guessing you don’t have any black friends, and if you do you’ve probably never had a really deep and honest conversation about their experiences. You probably also didn’t see the O-6 who was fired for live streaming his racist rants-a man who has been signing FITREPS, ranking JOs and deciding fates and orders etc.

The media has an incentive to keep the rhetoric going. COVID coverage is losing its luster...pivot to racism.

George Floyd video was spread on YouTube and social media. Anyone watching that video should’ve been as outraged as I was...I couldn’t imagine the anger someone in that community felt. To blame this current situation in the media is ridiculous. This video created almost a primal -visceral response that spread virally like wildfire-without the media’s help.

Corporations have an incentive to keep the rhetoric going. Racism bad. Loot and riot and protest. Businesses burned. Well I’ve decided it’s justified due to systemic racism.

who is doing the looting? I’ve seen a bunch of white kids and boogs in the mix with blacks too... Most black community members at the grassroots level are pissed that this is happening. Pretty ignorant statement

Order BLM mask on Amazon to maximize virtue (mortality rate of the flu, woops) and watch history of Feminism on Netflix while virtue signaling about racism on tik tok via iPhone. Everyone wins. Well except for the white female business owner beat up by protestors. But she didn’t have a “black owned” sign so, oppressor I guess. NBD

this isn’t a “share on Facebook” rage fad. People are fucking tired of watching cops murder unarmed citizens. People are finally talking to their neighbors about race instead of it just being buried underneath, never spoken about.

The problem is that people want Equality of Outcome, when all that you’re going to get is Equality of Opportunity. We are not all built the same. But our culture does not want truth, they want to feel good.

people don’t even have equality of opportunity. A black family in abject poverty does not have the same opportunities as you do.


I’m extremely disappointed in this comment. You have a lot of growing to do, especially if you’re leading any of our sailors.
If you’re not in the military, then please don’t join until you get some life experience and get out of your bubble.

 

[Brett327]

The problem is that people want Equality of Outcome, when all that you’re going to get is Equality of Opportunity.

I’m honestly curious if you think your average 18 year old black man has the same opportunity as your average white 18 year old?

 

[Griz882]

I’m honestly curious if you think your average 18 year old black man has the same opportunity as your average white 18 year old?

YES! The is THE question. When the opportunities presented to young black people are actually limited...and they are...why aren’t we asking this question? There is an undercurrent to these protests that appears to have little to do with the genuine impacts of racism, it is all about something else. I believe most of the racism found in the system is no longer personal, it is legacy stuff left over from older times. But try, just try, to say you want to rewrite the oh-sacred Civil Rights Act of 1964 that causes so many of the issues we face today. For those who live in a simply binary world, I am not recommending we simply dump the Act, rather a new one be written. Why are building a bulwark of new laws on a bulwark of rather bad old laws?

Ripping down statues has nothing, zero, to do with the true causes of racism in this country. Reimagining how police departments does. Screaming and blaming a diminutive former Confederate who has been in his grave for over 100 years is pointless venting. Creating small, local neighborhood opportunities for primarily black areas has a point. @Brett327 hit the nail on the head but most Americans can’t even swing the hammer that close. We have made his critical question a rather silly one that can only be measured as Republican vs. Democrat...the dumbest measure of them all.

 

[Hair Warrior]

Retired Atlantic Beach U.S. Navy Captain, alumni volunteer accidentally goes live on Facebook, uses racial slurs during conversation

 

[Deleted member 24525]

Man that article certainly cherry picked the light stuff, he was saying things a lot worse than that.

The problem is This dude won’t look at himself and change.

He will blame PC culture that he can’t say Ni—er. He will blame affirmative action for having that “black bitch” secretary. He will blame cancel culture that he’s out of a job. He will blame affirmative action when he can’t get a new job.

 

[taxi1]

Retired Atlantic Beach U.S. Navy Captain, alumni volunteer accidentally goes live on Facebook, uses racial slurs during conversation

That is some monumentally sad stuff.

You can’t un-$&# a goat. But I bet he tries.

Was he a bubblehead? Rig for dive...

 

[Griz882]

That is some monumentally sad stuff.

You can’t un-$&# a goat. But I bet he tries.

Was he a bubblehead? Rig for dive...

Too many screen doors on that boat! It is sad and he might try to pretty it up, but in the world of hyper-reactive social media I would just turn my stuff off and hide until the next idiot opens their mouth. I am certain there is one out there.