Pme

[milky-f18]

It is a one year shore-tour post Department-Head.

War college doesn't actually have to be post DH. It just usually falls there because you don't have time in your career before then for most aviation warfares. SWOs (from my understanding) have so much extra time in their career that they can do lots of things like this that aviators cannot. As a carrier pilot, you have no chance at being an ROTC instructor, so if you want a masters, it's going to be on your own time. If you took a long time to get through flight school, you won't have time pre-DH to get War College (and they probably won't send you unless you got #1 out of a big place like a RAG). Post DH, you have to be able to do a joint tour, and with year groups in the F/A community dragging people up by the fistfuls, you are losing 1-2 years off of your career path before you are up for command, so you have even less time to squeeze anything in. Throw an IA in there to use up another year of your career while not buying you any checks in the box (maybe some joint credit if you're lucky), and you are basically working your ass off as a DH while doing your distance JPME and trying to get a masters on top.

I'm all about being competitive, but I believe that if the Navy wants you to have JPME, they should build it into your career path. I think that if they want you to have a Masters, they should build it into your career path. I nearly have a Masters on my own because I just am a nerd and like to abuse myself in my off time, but I don't think that should be the way people do it. Some people actually have a life away from work, and they shouldn't be penalized if they are a good pilot/officer. We have way too many douches that suck in the jet, suck at leading, but are really good at putting their efforts into JPME and their Masters while everybody else picks up their slack. They get the checks in the box, and the guys that fight wars have to get out.

I do know that there is a good reason for JPME, and i do believe leaders need to be well-rounded (especially above the O-5 level). BUT, there are ways to train your people without making them do it on their own or flail.

 

[MasterBates]

I think its just getting a bit much.

Talking with some buds from my old community (HSL) about this last year, and it's why a lot of them are getting out. Too many wickets that don't mean shat. Too many guys who can barely fly safely, moving up because they are paper warriors.

Combine that with atrocious career prospects post-DH, and a lot of guys start looking elsewhere for work.

PME, like 99.99% of the crap on NKO is just going to be a cookie cutter waste of time that could be better spent elsewhere.

Like drinking at the club.

 

[Hozer]

I nearly have a Masters on my own because I just am a nerd and like to abuse myself in my off time, but I don't think that should be the way people do it.

The reason why it sucks is precisely because you and enough others "abuse" themselves and get it done. Until enough don't get it done, these requirements will be here to stay.

I'm part of the problem too. Getting my Masters on the side, when I should be playing with my kids.

 

[milky-f18]

The reason why it sucks is precisely because you and enough others "abuse" themselves and get it done. Until enough don't get it done, these requirements will be here to stay.

I'm part of the problem too. Getting my Masters on the side, when I should be playing with my kids.

Well, I might get that check in the box accidentally, but I can guarantee you that if I don't do a stop in War College, I will not have any JPME done. I don't plan to do CDO or OOD unless I am stationed on a ship in a capacity that needs that training. There will be plenty of you that will do it because you want to be 'competitive,' so I will probably not be competitive. I'll be the guy with great fitreps that didn't get the checks in the blocks. If that doesn't get me the job, then I probably wouldn't like what I had to sell my soul for to get the next job.

 

[SH-60OB]

If you go to the NWC resident program, then you will get both Phase 1 and 2.

Just some clarification: National War College (NWC) Resident and the Industrial College of Armed Forces (ICAF) Resident courses at National Defense University (NDU) = JPME Phase I and II.

Naval War College (NWC): College of Naval Warfare (Senior Course) resident course = Phase I and II

College of Command and Staff (Junior Course) resident couse = Phase I only

College of Distance Learning = Phase I only.

Full list of JPME options here:
http://www.npc.navy.mil/NR/rdonlyres/30DFE969-D782-4006-8DD1-7CA781617D86/0/JPMEMatrix.xls

 

[Flying Low]

Even if you get all the checks in the box, there is no guarantee that you will screen for command.

 

[SH-60OB]

I think that you're confusing requirements for items that will make you competitive. To my knowledge (and I'm USMC, but Title X is still Title X), there is not a statuatory requirement for any of this stuff (PME, Masters, OOD letter, etc).

Statuatory requirement for JPME for promotion, well at least for those of you looking at O-7 below. (could this be why this years flag list isn't out yet?):

Ø10 U.S.C. (as amended by NDAA 2005 & 2007)
•After 30 Sep 08, designation as JSO/JQO required for flag promotion
•Officers may not be selected for JSO without successful JPME II completion
•SECDEF shall:
• Implement a comprehensive framework for JPME for officers
• Implement a three-phase approach to JPME
–Phase I – Intermediate level service school
–Phase II – JFSC or Senior Level Service School designated and certified by the Secretary of Defense
–Flag level

 

[Fred]

Statuatory requirement for JPME for promotion, well at least for those of you looking at O-7 below. (could this be why this years flag list isn't out yet?):

Those who are on the yet to be released list, were notified a while ago.

 

[Harrier Dude]

Statuatory requirement for JPME for promotion, well at least for those of you looking at O-7 below. (could this be why this years flag list isn't out yet?):

Ø10 U.S.C. (as amended by NDAA 2005 & 2007)
•After 30 Sep 08, designation as JSO/JQO required for flag promotion
•Officers may not be selected for JSO without successful JPME II completion
•SECDEF shall:
• Implement a comprehensive framework for JPME for officers
• Implement a three-phase approach to JPME
–Phase I – Intermediate level service school
–Phase II – JFSC or Senior Level Service School designated and certified by the Secretary of Defense
–Flag level

Good gouge. However, what I meant by my post was that what people are saying is "required" to make Commander/LtCol isn't actually "required" for that grade. It is required later on to make Flag/General rank, but the people being considered for that board have already long since completed that requirement. They did it to be competitive for Cmdr/Ltcol, not because it was a requirement that had to be fulfilled by law.

I guess it's just semantics. It might as well be required. I remember when AWS (now EWS) didn't matter at all for selection to Major. Now it does. Is it a "requirement"? No. Do people still get promoted without it? Sometimes. But above major, it (PME, in this case C&S) is a go/no-go criteria. Not by law, but by practice.

The air force and navy have been pushing masters degrees for several years. The air force is pushing doctorates. While the Marine Corps claims that a large percentage of their selections to LtCol have masters degrees, a very large part of those degrees are the ones from Command and Staff. It was the "Command and Staff" part that mattered to the board. Not the masters. People that got a masters on their own, or worse yet, got it from NPS, actually suffer a kind of penalty when it comes to promotion.

The bottom line is that lack of PME is a huge disadvantage when it comes to promotion. That's just a fact. A masters degree may help mitigate that in the navy (I don't know....not in the navy), but it absolutely will not in the Marine Corps. If there is any doubt about your future in the service, just get your PME done as soon as you can. If you want to get a masters for your own personal reasons (as I did), then go ahead and do it. Just don't waste your time getting a masters in "Military Science" or some other unmarketable area thinking it will get you ahead unless you've done your PME first. Outside of the military, it won't help you very much, if at all.

 

[SH-60OB]

Good gouge. However, what I meant by my post was that what people are saying is "required" to make Commander/LtCol isn't actually "required" for that grade.

True enough. JPME I only required for O-5 Command, not O-5. The reason that it is being pushed to the O-4 level is that the command screen board follows the O-5 board and you would want as many people as possible to be eligible

It is required later on to make Flag/General rank, but the people being considered for that board have already long since completed that requirement. They did it to be competitive for Cmdr/Ltcol, not because it was a requirement that had to be fulfilled by law.

Congress waived the JSO requirement to make Flag pretty easily for the last 20 years. Since this was the case, Joint wasn't emphasized as much as it is now and it would not be inconceiveable that some people up for O-7 were scrambling to meet the requirement. There is a reason BUPERS is putting a prioirty on O-6's getting the JPME II slots at JFSC.

 

[Harrier Dude]

True enough. JPME I only required for O-5 Command, not O-5. The reason that it is being pushed to the O-4 level is that the command screen board follows the O-5 board and you would want as many people as possible to be eligible.

Where is this written?

It's a moot point, and we agree on the practical application, but I haven't seen that written as a law/regulation.

 

[SH-60OB]

All good points, but there is now an actual requirement to complete JPME to screen for command. Don't know about the Marines, but this NAVADMIN addresses the Navy requirement:

R 021653Z MAY 05
FM CNO WASHINGTON DC//N1//
TO NAVADMIN
UNCLAS //N01521//
NAVADMIN 093/05
MSGID/GENADMIN/CNO WASHINGTON DC/N1/APR//
SUBJ/JOINT PROFESSIONAL MILITARY EDUCATION COMMAND REQUIREMENT//
GENTEXT/REMARKS/1. TODAY'S LEADERS MUST COMPREHEND JOINT FORCE EMPLOYMENT AND BE ABLE TO APPLY THIS CONCEPT IN THE JOINT WAR-FIGHTING ENVIRONMENT. AS PART OF THE NAVY'S HUMAN CAPITAL STRATEGY, JOINT PROFESSIONAL MILITARY EDUCATION PHASE ONE IS A VITAL MILESTONE IN EVERY OFFICER'S PROFESSIONAL DEVELOPMENT. WITH THE ESTABLISHMENT OF THE PROFESSIONAL MILITARY EDUCATION CONTINUUM IN NAVADMIN 263/04, JOINT PROFESSIONAL MILITARY EDUCATION PHASE ONE IS
NOW A REQUIREMENT FOR UNRESTRICTED LINE OFFICERS SCREENING TO UNRESTRICTED LINE COMMANDER COMMAND (ACTIVE DUTY AND RESERVE COMMANDS) BEGINNING WITH SCREENING GROUPS RECEIVING THEIR FIRST LOOK DURING THE FISCAL YEAR 2009 COMMAND SELECTION BOARD (HELD FEBRUARY
THROUGH DECEMBER 2008). SELECTED RESERVE COMMAND BILLETS, INCLUDING THOSE COMPETED FOR VIA THE APPLY PROCESS, ARE UNDER REVIEW TO DETERMINE WHICH BILLETS WILL BE SUBJECT TO THIS REQUIREMENT.

^^^

 

[Harrier Dude]

Got it. -1 for my reading comprehension.

Still, I'd say that everybody who saw that message that was being considered by the board said "So what? I did that 3 years ago. How do they think that I was selected for commander?"

 

[Harrier Dude]

By the way, I ran your signature through a online translater (I don't speak Greman) and it gave me this:

"Let us convince us take ape same landings"

Is that what it's supposed to mean?

http://ets.freetranslation.com/

/threadjack

 

[SH-60OB]

Never thought to do it backwards. English to German of

Let us make sure take offs equal landings.

gave me

Lassen Sie uns uns überzeugen nehmen offs gleiche Landungen.