P-3 finds a sub

[Capt Morgan's]

Yeah, I was going to say that there's probably not one piece of ASW gear in the Customs bird, too. But BZ on them getting 'em.



Um, I know just by the sheer nature that it's in the press, the facts are jacked up, but I'm not coming up w/ the same math they did:

1 bale = about 20 kilos
11 bales = 220 kilos
1 kilo = about $20000

220 * $20000 = $4400000 = $4.4 million

Even if you make that a street value (multiply by about 4, last I heard), that's still only $16+ million.

Or did I forget to carry a one? I'm always doing that...

I called and asked my father about this as he is a retired Customs Agent.

#1 - he said to his knowledge the Customs P-3 retains very little of the Navy's version of a P-3 and is setup to be more like an AWACS then anything else and is used primarily for searching for low flying aircraft.

#2 - his comment about the really high value of the coke was that it was "typical" to see such an exagerated number, he stated a lot of that number has to do with who was on the scene first. He stated that the Coast Guard may stack the coke into a different sized bundle then the Navy would and yet again different from how the DEA would. Without a photo of the bundles he said it would be hard to tell how many kilo's per bundle. Second he said everyone is going to take credit for the bust so each department/agency will issue a different value to the overall bust, coast guard may be including the value of the sub, equipment on it, manpower etc... He said that DEA will typically issue a value not off what it is worth per kilo but what the end sale value would be and that in some cases can be significally higher apparently then just what the plain product is worth.

He also stated that in 30+ years he rarely ever saw a true "pure" shipment and if that was actually the case in this instance then it could be attributing to the high value number.

Overall he said all the agencies would pick a high number to help show/justify the resources that are being expended to track these guys down.

 

[Hozer]

Not the ones we always got. They were just about always twenty 1-Kilo packages that weighed somewhere around a kilo. I understand the uncut, that's why I added the multiplier. Yeah, I know it can be cut more, but that usually happens after it hits the streets.

I too recall "bale" being used to describe a variety of bound and packaged narcotic contraband back in my CDOPs/JIATFS days.
Strictly speaking as a unit of measurement, a "bale" equates to 500 pounds. Cotton bales come to mind, being the Southern White Trash that I am.
I also appreciate your skepticism regarding adverts on busts.
But if they go through the trouble to manufacture a submersible, in this case really just a fibreglass boat with low freeboard and some RAM, they're going to pack it with as much stuff as possible.

Right on though, weapons free.

 

[Hozer]

#1 - he said to his knowledge the Customs P-3 retains very little of the Navy's version of a P-3 and is setup to be more like an AWACS then anything else and is used primarily for searching for low flying aircraft.

There are at least 2 versions of Customs P-3's and "several" versions of Navy P-3's flying down there. The "Dome" versions are awacs-ish if you want to go there. The "slicks" are different and beyond the scope of this thread.

Nevertheless, good catch for all involved. I think a couple of folks might get chainsawed for this one. Or get assigned to mortar team training with that jackass that took himself out.

 

[A4sForever]

Most ASW detections are visual - interesting nonetheless.

No shit. Visuals .... sometimes we don't neeeed no steeeenkin' sonar, sonobuoys or MAD gear ....

It's true, and I can vouch for one ... right off the Horn of Africa in 1974 near the island of Socotra .... it was later determined to be a Golf I or a possible converted Zulu class ... we were never really sure 'cause both were supposed to be in the area ....

We got one "spike/warble" on the RHAW gear @ 25 miles or so as he popped up and painted us -- once. Only one sweep from the sub. I probably would have blown it off as some electronic anomaly -- but my B/N -- experienced in sub hunting and the Navy's oldest living, breathing, flying LT -- fact is; he'd flown in the final days of WW2 (and later, retired as the TOP HOOK for any Naval Aviation tailhook cockpit )) shouted: "THAT'S A SUB!! THAT'S A SUB!! HIT IT !! HIT IT !! LET'S GO!! LET'S GO !!"

He didn't have to ask me twice ..... I nearly bent the throttles off full forward as we unloaded and accelerated. The sail was still above water in a mad crash dive as we passed over the conning tower @ 500 KIAS and @ 5' .... I'm pretty sure the Rooskies "heard" us ... . It would have been so easy --- had we carried Rockeyes and were "switches on, guns hot" --- one Rooskie submarine mort. The Dream Message would have read something like: Saw sub, sank same .......

As it was -- we buzzed him (with extreme prejudice) and marked his position for the task force. Just another day in the Cold War. :sleep_125

It was a big deal on the ship, however, especially since the STOOFs and HELOs were finding NOTHING. Not really their fault .... they were slow birds and it was a big ocean --- and we got lucky.

Like I say ... visuals??? I'd rather be "lucky" than good any day ...

 

[Capt Morgan's]

There are at least 2 versions of Customs P-3's and "several" versions of Navy P-3's flying down there. The "Dome" versions are awacs-ish if you want to go there. The "slicks" are different and beyond the scope of this thread.

Sorry I should have specified that they retain very little of the ASW systems in his recollection, but I am sure they are incorporating new shiny things everyday to make their jobs easier and more effective as you indicated.

 

[larbear]

Yeah, I was going to say that there's probably not one piece of ASW gear in the Customs bird, too. But BZ on them getting 'em.



Um, I know just by the sheer nature that it's in the press, the facts are jacked up, but I'm not coming up w/ the same math they did:

1 bale = about 20 kilos
11 bales = 220 kilos
1 kilo = about $20000

220 * $20000 = $4400000 = $4.4 million

Even if you make that a street value (multiply by about 4, last I heard), that's still only $16+ million.

Or did I forget to carry a one? I'm always doing that...

What the hell is a kilo? Kilo what??!!! Kiloquad? Kilometer? Kilojoule??:icon_rage Someone needs to fix the people who run around saying kilo as if it actually means anything other than the number 1000 before larbear flips out and goes postal.

Why can't we just measure drugs in good old American pounds anyway??

 

[Brett327]

What the hell is a kilo? Kilo what??!!! Kiloquad? Kilometer? Kilojoule??:icon_rage Someone needs to fix the people who run around saying kilo as if it actually means anything other than the number 1000 before larbear flips out and goes postal.

Why can't we just measure drugs in good old American pounds anyway??

In Europe, when people say Kilo, the gram is implied.

Brett

 

[Gatordev]

#2 - his comment about the really high value of the coke was that it was "typical" to see such an exagerated number, he stated a lot of that number has to do with who was on the scene first. He stated that the Coast Guard may stack the coke into a different sized bundle then the Navy would and yet again different from how the DEA would. Without a photo of the bundles he said it would be hard to tell how many kilo's per bundle.

I respectfully disagree. No one breaks open the individual bails/bales (Hozer, you've got me gunshy now, I thought it was "bales") until it's being processed at the incinerator. Stuff that comes off the ship/boat/whatever is left in the packaged bails, if for no other reason than it makes it easier to carry. Each bale is weighed. See Exhibit A. Only a couple of bales will be opened to test purity (Exhibit B). The actual report of seizures is cataloged by weight and number of bales, so it has nothing to do w/ how it's "stacked."


As for purity...you're right, not 100%, but the typical seizure is greater than 99%, which is pretty damn pure.

I also appreciate your skepticism regarding adverts on busts.

It was always a moving target on what the reported amount was. It's amazing how bad inflation hits the ship in just a few days.


Exhibits A & B. I'll put Exhibit C up in a minute, which is pretty mind-blowing.

 

[Gatordev]

Here's Exhibit C. That's only about 250+ bails/bales...basically half the forecastle. There's another 270 or so to the right of the frame.

 

[larbear]

In Europe, when people say Kilo, the gram is implied.

Brett

Because we all know we need to be more like Europe. Why don't we just give up, join the EU and sing coombaya? Better yet, let's surrender to the French.

 

[Gatordev]

Because we all know we need to be more like Europe. Why don't we just give up, join the EU and sing coombaya? Better yet, let's surrender to the French.

There was this thing a few years back. I think it was called "The '80's." EVERYONE knew what a kilo was, especially as it applies to the subject of the thread.

 

[Brett327]

Because we all know we need to be more like Europe. Why don't we just give up, join the EU and sing coombaya? Better yet, let's surrender to the French.

I'm just explaining why that is the convention. Whether you choose to use (or like) it is your own affair.

Brett

 

[scoober78]

For the record...

bale:

bail:

 

[xj220]

What the hell is a kilo? Kilo what??!!! Kiloquad? Kilometer? Kilojoule??:icon_rage Someone needs to fix the people who run around saying kilo as if it actually means anything other than the number 1000 before larbear flips out and goes postal.

Why can't we just measure drugs in good old American pounds anyway??

You sound exactly like my statics teacher. You wouldn't have happened to major in engineering at all, would you?

 

[Catmando]

What the hell is a kilo? Kilo what??!!! ...

I always thought a kilo was close to a henway.