Obama Team Will Look To "Fix" Airlines

[yak52driver]

Saw this on several news sources today. Not sure how they plan to implement a change to the current airline business model, but unless they go back to something similar to before deregulation, they will have problems preventing competition between airlines (especially subsidized foreign air carriers) from undercutting ticket prices and personnel/maintenance cost cutting measures.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33888199/ns/travel-news/

 

[AJTranny]

I've read a lot of different estimates but I am wondering if anyone in the know has heard of a timeline when this NextGen controlling system will kick online. I also wonder if the military has already had this upgrade money set aside. Can't believe I haven't heard much about this yet.

 

[FlyinRock]

Yep the new admin is gonna fix aircarriers just like the economy, health care, illegal immigration, gun control, and the military.

 

[jtmedli]

Yep the new admin is gonna fix aircarriers just like the economy, health care, illegal immigration, gun control, and the military.

Oh goody...can't wait.

 

[RadicalDude]

Oh goody...can't wait.

jt you talk a lot of shit about the CiC for someone who's applying to work for him.

I seriously find it hard to believe the administration of the airlines could get much worse. Between TSA, extra charges for meals, being treated like human cattle, and charging for your first checked bag, it's one of the poorest run service industries in terms of customer service and public perception I can think of.

 

[Ken_gone_flying]

jt you talk a lot of shit about the CiC for someone who's applying to work for him.

I work for him, and I'm not exactly on his bandwagon either.

 

[RedFive]

jt you talk a lot of shit about the CiC for someone who's applying to work for him.

Get off your high horse, you were in his shoes...uh...how long ago? Damn.

--edit--

I seriously find it hard to believe the administration of the airlines could get much worse. Between TSA, extra charges for meals, being treated like human cattle, and charging for your first checked bag, it's one of the poorest run service industries in terms of customer service and public perception I can think of.

And since when did meals and baggage become a right? "What do you think makes [airplanes] go up? Funding. No bucks, no buck rogers." This sense of entitlement crap is really annoying.

 

[Afterburner76]

Get off your high horse, you were in his shoes...uh...how long ago? Damn.

--edit--



And since when did meals and baggage become a right? "What do you think makes [airplanes] go up? Funding. No bucks, no buck rogers." This sense of entitlement crap is really annoying.

Who said ANYTHING about meals and baggage being a "right"? Airlines are a "service" industry. If I'm going to spend $400 round trip somewhere, I don't want to be nickel and dimed for everything under the sun. That being said, in the days before deregulation (which I'm sure you weren't even born during, R5) the air carriers gave a lot more bang for the buck. Sure things weren't perfect then, but they are completely f-ed up now.

 

[RadicalDude]

Get off your high horse, you were in his shoes...uh...how long ago? Damn.

4.5 years ago. But you're right, I shouldn't have gotten personal. I just feel as if a significant portion of this board's users will use any excuse to criticize the President.

+1 to Afterburner, the key point of my argument was the SERVICE part of service industry. You wouldn't like it if McDonald's charged for napkins, restroom use, ketchup, straws, etc. Why put up with it from the airlines?

 

[phrogpilot73]

Who said ANYTHING about meals and baggage being a "right"? Airlines are a "service" industry. If I'm going to spend $400 round trip somewhere, I don't want to be nickel and dimed for everything under the sun. That being said, in the days before deregulation (which I'm sure you weren't even born during, R5) the air carriers gave a lot more bang for the buck. Sure things weren't perfect then, but they are completely f-ed up now.

+1 to Afterburner, the key point of my argument was the SERVICE part of service industry. You wouldn't like it if McDonald's charged for napkins, restroom use, ketchup, straws, etc. Why put up with it from the airlines?

What if the airlines started charging what it ACTUALLY costs to haul your ass somewhere? AND they didn't provide meals or baggage service without a fee?

Yes, they are a service industry - but they are an industry. And an industry, by its very nature exists to make money. At $400 for a round trip - the airlines are losing money. Stop bitching about paying for meals and baggage until you're ready to start paying the REAL cost of an airline ticket.

 

[m26]

Phrog, I have no complaints about paying what it costs to fly, and as long as we have fair competition I'm not worried about that.

That said, I'm not convinced we always get fair competition. I remember a story about JetBlue in ATL (which, full disclosure, I believe read in a book about JetBlue). They came in with discounted fares, but Delta took a loss to undercut them, leaving JetBlue hemorrhaging cash. Once JetBlue limped out, the Delta prices jumped back up.*

*This is the story as it was told, not necessarily as it actually was

 

[Godspeed]

What if the airlines started charging what it ACTUALLY costs to haul your ass somewhere? AND they didn't provide meals or baggage service without a fee?

Yes, they are a service industry - but they are an industry. And an industry, by its very nature exists to make money. At $400 for a round trip - the airlines are losing money. Stop bitching about paying for meals and baggage until you're ready to start paying the REAL cost of an airline ticket.

I couldn't agree more. There is no reason to bitch about not getting a meal with your ticket. If you deserve such great service, then you can drop the money on a first class ticket. Chances are, if you are flying on said airline (that isn't giving you a meal en route), it is probably because you got the best deal you could after scouring the net.

The airlines are flexing to accomodate a changing cost structure and ultimately a more discriminating consumer. Business is business. Trust me, I'm a doctor. Eh, ok I'm not a doctor but I did major in Aviation Management.

 

[LazersGoPEWPEW]

jt you talk a lot of shit about the CiC for someone who's applying to work for him.

I seriously find it hard to believe the administration of the airlines could get much worse. Between TSA, extra charges for meals, being treated like human cattle, and charging for your first checked bag, it's one of the poorest run service industries in terms of customer service and public perception I can think of.

So how long have you worked for the airlines? Get over your sense of entitlement.

Also for these checked bag fee bullshit arguments.

If you pay for a full fare ticket, your bags are checked free and you can also get refunds and change your ticket without paying extra fees etc etc.

Some of the people that post in these airline threads blow my mind. If you haven't worked for one you probably don't understand how it works. I haven't been a pilot for one but I've done the ramp work, the gate work, the ticket work and the baggage work. The costs involved in running an airline are tremendous and the prices they have for tickets today are unbelievably lower than what I feel they ought to be.

Anyways, I think this will be interesting to watch in the future.

 

[A4sForever]

... JetBlue in ATL ... came in with discounted fares, but Delta took a loss to undercut them, leaving JetBlue hemorrhaging cash. Once JetBlue limped out, the Delta prices jumped back up....

That's happened many, many times in the airlines (and in other industries, as well) ... it's called the free market, competition, and capitalism. All things the Obama 'team' hates ...

Remember -- there's a reason 'low cost' airlines (keeping the discussion to this industry ONLY) can charge 'lower fares'. Since the airplanes cost the same ... the fuel costs the same (unless you can hedge, like SWA did for years) ... the landing fees are the same ... catering costs the same ... and the taxes and federal mandates are the same ... what's the one thing that's different that allows one airline to charge less than another ... ???

Employee costs; labor costs ... that's what ...

They pay their employees shit wages while the front office lines THEIR pockets w/ salary, bennie's, stock options, etc., etc. ... I KNOW how it works as I've been in the 'front office' ... and as a philosophical point, I don't have a problem w/ the front office 'getting rich' ... but how about your troops??? Oh, that's right ... never mind; fuck 'em, I've got mine.

Remember that thing you learned your first day in the NAVY -- or at least you should have: TAKE CARE OF YOUR MEN AND THEY WILL TAKE CARE OF YOU

Soooooooo ... when you fly the 'low cost' airlines to save a few bucks for YOURSELF -- you're assisting the Jet Blue's of the world in keeping their boys 'down on the farm'. The problem is allowed to exist because so many 'low cost' airline employees are so desperate to get on, ANYWHERE in the airlines that they will accept what they hope is a temporary shit in the face situation in the hopes of things 'getting better'. And they seldom or never do ...

But to redirect back to your comment about undercutting another competitor: it's also called -- 'nothing personal, it's just business' ...

 

[Afterburner76]

If you pay for a full fare ticket, your bags are checked free and you can also get refunds

ummm.. wrong.

American Airlines

For flights within the U.S., Puerto Rico, and U.S. Virgin Islands, American passengers pay $20 USD for their first checked bag and $30 for the second bag. One carry-on is permitted at no charge. On international flights, one carry-on and two checked bags are permitted for free, with the exception of flights from the U.S., Puerto Rico and U.S. Virgin Islands to, through or from parts of Europe and India, where a $50 fee applies to a second checked bag. American charges $100 per piece for the 3rd, 4th and 5th checked bags and $200 per piece for the 6th checked bag and any additional pieces.


Continental Airlines


Continental charges passengers within the U.S., Canada, Puerto Rico and the U.S. Virgin Islands with one checked bag in economy $20 USD. Each bag must not exceed 23 kg. (50 lbs.) A second bag costs $30. Note that if you pre-pay for bags at continental.com, the costs are $15 and $25 respectively. International travelers now pay a $25-$50 fee for a second checked bag. There are a host of exemptions to the fees that include active military personnel traveling on orders and travelers paying full fare. Bags weighing between 50-70 lbs. incur a fee of $50 per item; bags measuring more than 62 in. cost $100/bag. Bags weighing more than 70 lbs. or in excess of 115 in. are not accepted. http://www.continental.com/web/en-US/content/travel/baggage/checkbag.aspx

Delta Airlines

Delta charges $20 USD for the first checked bag and $30 for a second when you pay at airport ticket counter, kiosk, or curbside. Online payments are discounted $5. The second checked bag on economy flights from the U.S. or Canada to Europe is $50 each way; to Latin America (excluding Brazil) $25 (online check-in) to $30 (airport). Checked bags must weigh less than 50 lbs. An extra bag that goes over the limits will involve a charge ranging from $90-$300 per bag. Bags weighing more than 100 lbs. are not permitted. http://www.lufthansa.com/online/portal/lh/us/info_and_services/baggage?l=en&nodeid=1769640


Northwest Airlines

As with Delta, Northwest charges $20 USD for the first checked bag and $30 for a second when you pay at airport ticket counter, kiosk, or curbside. Online payments are discounted $5. the third and subsequent pieces each cost $100. Northwest defines a domestic flight as within the U.S. and not involving destinations in Canada, Mexico or the Caribbean. On such flights and other international flights from the U.S., bags one and two are free. There is a long list of charges for baggage that exceeds 50 lbs. The charges vary by destination and can add up quickly.

United Airlines

United charges each passenger $15 for the first checked bag and $25 for the second when using United.com. Other check-ins require an additional $5/bag. Oversize bags (beyond 50 lbs.) incur a fee of $175, and overweight bags are assessed $125. The schedule of charges and conditions is complicated, so read carefully. All the fees apply to one-way travel, so double them for a round trip. Also note United's advance check-in requirements, which vary by airport. United's fee for a second checked bag on international flights is $50 ($45 if paid online). United has also rolled out a "Premier Baggage Fee" of $249 that allows free first- and second-checked bags for 1 year.