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O-4/DH Selection vs 2FOS

Sailor_Dave_99

New Member
Just curious, not there yet,

Can someone please explain to me what the timeline looks like towards the end of your initial contract. Right now I'm looking at a 24-36 month Shore Tour followed by a 12-24 month Disassociated Sea Tour currently at the 4 year mark on the contract.

Questions to direct conversation:
-Where do the board (O-4 and ADHSB) looks fit in timeline wise?
-When at the latest would you 2FOS and then when would you be released from service? Mostly concerned with, coming from this angle, do you have to essentially serve more time to get to the point of 2FOS and subsequent severance pay?

Bonus Question:
-If you make O-4 are you guaranteed 20 or are there situations where the navy simply lets you go at 14-16yos? If you don't make commander you can attempt the Full Time Instructor route as an O-4. Where does that fit in with the board/career timing?

Again, not there yet. Keeping options open and pushing for O-4 until it comes time to make the decision. Just trying to figure out when that time is.
 

tarjas

Company Man
None
Questions to direct conversation:
-Where do the board (O-4 and ADHSB) looks fit in timeline wise?
-
Not sure what the greater concern is here:

  • why is your front office not briefing you this info
  • how have you made it this far without some professional knowledge of your.....profession
  • how google has kicked your butt so badly. Spend an afternoon on the PERS website instead of AW.
 

Sailor_Dave_99

New Member
I did actually do that first before posting this. Swear I’m not salty, the instructions 1920.6/7 seemed a little convoluted. Was hoping for a O-4 for dummies kind of breakdown.
 

Sailor_Dave_99

New Member
Okay I get it, thanks for living up to the hinge name. I’ve had the detailer brief, I’ve talked to my own hinges. Most of those conversations revolves around NOM rounds, etc. Now I’m looking past that, trying to figure out where and on what my time is better spent. Obviously will do my job, just focusing on what my free time will be consumed by. Need to know the specifics before I get anywhere. That chart is great, the diamonds show within the timeline where the looks are but I’ve also heard discussions about being above/in/below zone. That part confuses me. And then for example, if you have a 12 month delay prior to your first sea tour, you are a bit behind that chart. So does that mean rolling early to sea tour might set you up perfectly to 2FOS or promote right at your contract terminations and vice versus if you were to roll as late as possible, would you be set up for a 2 year sea tour orders that go past your contract termination? What happens then?
 

IRfly

Registered User
None
Here's how it was a few years back:
You'll go up for O-4 while on your disassociated sea tour. The detailers will make this happen by flexing your shore tour.

I did a shooter tour. Everyone in Shooter Alley went up for O-4 while on that tour (P-3, EP-3, TACAMO, Helo, and E-2 bubbas; single- and double-anchor types). The helo guys were given 3-year orders that would be cut short to send them to the RAG if they selected for O-4/DH. P-3 bubbas had 2-year orders that were extended if they did NOT select. The bottom line is that you were on the boat until your fate was known. For a lot of guys, that year after their first FOS really sucked--on the boat AND not really being in control of your future.

For the guy that selected after a FOS (very rare, FOS was due to a legit admin error), he moved along with his Navy life. For the others, they separated from the Navy with a fatty check (~$80k) about six months after the board results were published. That was more than the 2 years their orders had originally been for.
 

IRfly

Registered User
None
P.S. don't think about your obligated service deadline (i.e. your 7 or 9 years past winging as the termination of a contract. Your orders are your orders, and there are all kinds of admin hoops you have to jump through to get out of the Navy. Almost harder than getting in.
 

nittany03

FUBIJAR
pilot
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
P.S. don't think about your obligated service deadline (i.e. your 7 or 9 years past winging as the termination of a contract. Your orders are your orders, and there are all kinds of admin hoops you have to jump through to get out of the Navy. Almost harder than getting in.
If you FOSx2, all OBLISERV is waived. You exit on timeline, per (I believe) the MILPERSMAN. You do have to affiliate with the reserves (SELRES, IRR-VTU, or IRR-ASP) to get the severance pay, unless you’re ineligible for some reason.
 

bluemarlin04

Well-Known Member
If you FOSx2, all OBLISERV is waived. You exit on timeline, per (I believe) the MILPERSMAN. You do have to affiliate with the reserves (SELRES, IRR-VTU, or IRR-ASP) to get the severance pay, unless you’re ineligible for some reason.
The one caveat that the Navy doesn't always tell you is that if you retire from the reserves you have to pay back your severance pay if you collected it when you FOSx2.

That was a factor for me to get out and resign prior to FOSx2 because I knew I wanted to continue in the reseves and make it to 20 there.
 

Sailor_Dave_99

New Member
@bluemarlin04, that is the kind of stuff I'm looking for. Hinges in operational squadrons never had to make those decisions. Wouldn't the time to FOSx2 help in that situation? What did your career look like that you were able to go reserves but still resigned? Lately it seems like you still have to be a front-runner to pick up reserves.

To anyone else, is there no way to game your 2nd sea tour orders while weighing competitiveness vs time on the boat and FOSx2? It sounds like the longer you stay at your shore tour the less time you will have on your sea tour being that the OBLISERV is waived like @nittany03 said. Vice versa, if you want to be competitive and have a better chance of breaking out you obviously want to rotate ASAP. Either way, if you want to press for O-4 and potentially FOSx2 you are probably going to eat some more time on the boat (which could go either way in terms of satisfaction).
 

Pags

Pope of Chili Town
pilot
The one caveat that the Navy doesn't always tell you is that if you retire from the reserves you have to pay back your severance pay if you collected it when you FOSx2.

That was a factor for me to get out and resign prior to FOSx2 because I knew I wanted to continue in the reseves and make it to 20 there.
You used some different calculus than I did. I figured that the severance was money in hand when I needed it most: starting a new career with young kids. If I ended up staying in the reserves then I figured I'd end up not getting retirement for a few years more because of the severance and that'd be ok because I'd be older and costs of life would be lower and I'd hopefully have another retirement plan beyond the reserves. As it turns out I didn't do the reserve thing past my 3yrs in the IRR so taking the severance was free money.

To the OP you seem to be missing details about O4 screen and orders. Your looks at O4 are based on your Screen Group (SG). You get three looks at O4: BZ, IZ, and AZ (if you need it). I can't remember what the timing is but I want to say SG+9 for IZ look. So you generally get your BZ look at SG+8 (somebody QA these times, it's been a long time). Ideally your screen group is the same as your year group but that's not always the case. Sometimes you can move up or down a SG either adding or subtracting time to your IZ look at O4. You (and your front office and detailer) need to manage your orders timing so that you pass through the right wickets prior to your look at O4. Sometimes there are guys who show up to the fleet as LTJGs and have extra time in their career. Some guys show up as LTs and have to make up time. Generally you'll need a competitive fitrep from your sea tour, a production shore tour, and be on your boat tour. If you're fall along enough in your boat tour there should be an OOD letter or whatever qual is expected of you and MAYBE some good paper. So basically, you need to know when you're IZ look for O-4 is and manage your orders to ensure you hit the wickets on time. For instance, for a few months I got sucked up a SG and was looking at rolling ~18mo early form my shore tour to get to the boat. A few weeks later the detailer said, "nevermind," so I stuck around for the full time.

Once you FOSx1 you'll have a year to figure out Plan B. Once FOSx2 happens you have 6mo or so to get out. That happens pretty fast once you start counting in terminal leave and what not. SELRES is a completely different animal than FTS. Most guys I know who were 2xFOS ACDU got a letter in the mail the next year saying they're an O-4 in the USNR. Some guys affiliate with the reserves immediately after they 2xFOS and others hang in the IRR until they hit their 3 and depart and some do something in between. The SafetyO on my boat called a VR squadron in the town where his wife wanted to live the day after he got his 2xFOS notice and said, "hey, do you have space for a SELRES guy?" They said, "sure, we'll basically put you to work full time." That happens enough that there's even a catchy name for it: SELTAR. He and I haven't stayed in touch but I last saw him flying a C-40 in to Pax and he was working just shy of full time with his squadron and his wife was working full time. he seemed happy.
You can try all sorts of ways to scam a shorter boat tour. It was a hobby for most of us boat donkeys because there was plenty of time to hatch schemes. The detailer was smart on most of these schemes so none of them worked. You're only getting off of that boat if you get 2xFOS, if you screen for DH, or if you get to the end of your orders.
 
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bluemarlin04

Well-Known Member
You used some different calculus than I did. I figured that the severance was money in hand when I needed it most: starting a new career with young kids. If I ended up staying in the reserves then I figured I'd end up not getting retirement for a few years more because of the severance and that'd be ok because I'd be older and costs of life would be lower and I'd hopefully have another retirement plan beyond the reserves. As it turns out I didn't do the reserve thing past my 3yrs in the IRR so taking the severance was free money.
Correct. If I was in your situation I would have definitely taken it.

I was also facing about 3 more years to FOSx2 and wanted out ASAP.

@Sailor_Dave_99 I was a 1830 and not a Aviator.
 

nittany03

FUBIJAR
pilot
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
The SafetyO on my boat called a VR squadron in the town where his wife wanted to live the day after he got his 2xFOS notice and said, "hey, do you have space for a SELRES guy?" They said, "sure, we'll basically put you to work full time." That happens enough that there's even a catchy name for it: SELTAR. He and I haven't stayed in touch but I last saw him flying a C-40 in to Pax and he was working just shy of full time with his squadron and his wife was working full time. he seemed happy.
This works great IF the stars align . . . both from a sense of you having a resume the hardware squadron is looking for, and them needing people, and you not needing to find a home before their next application board. Would I have taken that if it'd fallen into my lap? Damn straight. Would I bet a paycheck on that happening to a given new reservist? Hell, no. Always have a plan B if you want to rush a hardware squadron.

I would recommend working your network and pinging the SELRES braintrust here if you FOSx2 and are looking to cross over to the dark side. If CTO is anything like they were when I got off AD, they can barely not fuck up your paperwork, let alone get you in a good billet. You have up to 90 days to be what's called In Assignment Processing or IAP. Basically, you get dumped off at the nearest NOSC and mark time while you apply to find a home. But if you want to find a rewarding billet, it's best to try to lead-turn that as much as you can. This is not precisely easy without access to RFMT (the SELRES detailerless detailing system . . . hey, we might be on to something here). And you won't get that until you're a SELRES. But that 90-day clock will start ticking. If you can network your way to a CO you know you want to work for who can take you, or even start to, the process will be a lot less painful.
 
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