Unless they hit the FRS/Fleet, then they are a bit harder to flush down. Remember, flight school is all about producing a certain number, and sometimes quality suffers. NSS wise, if an individual has a 35 or below, it simply means that the individual is at the bottom of his/her peers, but does not necessarily means he/she is a shit bag or a bad pilot, but for the most part the opposite of the latter is the reality.
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NSS Facts
- Thread starter Heloanjin
- Start date
Unless they hit the FRS/Fleet, then they are a bit harder to flush down. Remember, flight school is all about producing a certain number, and sometimes quality suffers. NSS wise, if an individual has a 35 or below, it simply means that the individual is at the bottom of his/her peers, but does not necessarily means he/she is a shit bag or a bad pilot, but for the most part the opposite of the latter is the reality.
A 35 NSS means one can proudly say,"I was in the top 85% of my flight school class."
It doesn't mean one's a shitbag, but it probably means he's a bad pilot.
It doesn't mean one's a shitbag, but it probably means he's a bad pilot.
Soo...if the two programs and A/C are different..who's to say that a T34 student was a 45 NSS kinda guy wouldn't be a 55 NSS kinda guy in T6s or vice versa? For worse or for better and all else equal, putting two identical students through two different programs will inevitably end in two different results. The amount of difference is arguable, but notable. When the Navy puts a hardline on the NSS for jets at a 50 then a 49 vs a 51 can be a significant difference in a given week.
So, with that said, does that make a guy with a 49 a "turd that's sinking to the bottom"? While I agree with what AgonzAV8R said, I also think that, with the existance of a set hardline for jets, slight differences in NSS's resulting from having two different programs (with grades that come from these magical, 'notional' averages) could result in two different outcomes even when all else is held equal. Which it never is.
I actually find the application of math in this manner pretty interesting and I kind of 'nerd out' on it a little so I apologize if I seem like I'm arguing or something. It's just an interesting debate. The NSS and the nature of 'bell-curving' everyone's grades makes for an inherent grey area in the 40-60 range (mid-range, give or take a few points) and having two different A/C and programs being compared against each other 'after the curve' makes it a little more grey so calling it "all else equal" is also inherently flawed to some degree which is the 'interesting/arguable' part of the whole thing.
Another interesting concept is that of MIF. If a guy can make MIF throughout primary then theoretically he should pass with a 35 (or one would think based on the concept), but we all know that isn't the case.
Well, we've long nuked the shit out of this topic so I'll add my two pesos.
In my opinion, since you can't replicate every exact flight/sim as the same for each student, NSS will never be perfect. That inherent flaw alone makes it an "unfair" system. It's not a college program where everyone gets the same test, in the same room, with the same lighting, same temperature, same noises etc... I got over that fact in primary. However, one thing that the NSS system does do well is that it identifies trends. When a student attrites or goes through a service level review, they don't just look at the flights said student downed. They look at the whole picture. If SNA is consistently getting barely passing or below average scores for general knowledge in the brief, failing tests, and subsequently experiences consistent brain-aneurysm like symptoms while flying, then it's probably not going to go well for the SNA. Now, if a student comes prepared (or shows a solid relative effort) and is a below average stick, then his grades might suffer and he might pop for a low NSS. That just means to me, the SNA will have to put more effort into his abilities in the future than the average student. Everyone has their days, and more than 50% of SNAs going through the school now get shot and get handed a yellow sheet. Shit happens. It always cracked me up when I heard a student say "man, that (insert stud xxx) is a good pilot"....I usually say "STFU, we all have less than 150 hours in the air, we all suck in different ways"
In my opinion, since you can't replicate every exact flight/sim as the same for each student, NSS will never be perfect. That inherent flaw alone makes it an "unfair" system. It's not a college program where everyone gets the same test, in the same room, with the same lighting, same temperature, same noises etc... I got over that fact in primary. However, one thing that the NSS system does do well is that it identifies trends. When a student attrites or goes through a service level review, they don't just look at the flights said student downed. They look at the whole picture. If SNA is consistently getting barely passing or below average scores for general knowledge in the brief, failing tests, and subsequently experiences consistent brain-aneurysm like symptoms while flying, then it's probably not going to go well for the SNA. Now, if a student comes prepared (or shows a solid relative effort) and is a below average stick, then his grades might suffer and he might pop for a low NSS. That just means to me, the SNA will have to put more effort into his abilities in the future than the average student. Everyone has their days, and more than 50% of SNAs going through the school now get shot and get handed a yellow sheet. Shit happens. It always cracked me up when I heard a student say "man, that (insert stud xxx) is a good pilot"....I usually say "STFU, we all have less than 150 hours in the air, we all suck in different ways"
Rog. Sir, I was just saying that it's interesting how the two are implemented despite the fact that they don't really have any direct effect on each other.
If may not be perfectly fair, but it's the best that can reasonably be done. You're being compared to other students in roughly the same situation. While during the T-6/T-34 transition, there may be a few people being compared apples to oranges, over time it's the best that can be done.
While the shifting NSS targets for jets or attrition or whatever are sometimes frustrating, they aren't unique to flight school. One year a promotion board my have to promote 95% and anyone who's not a child molester makes it. A few years later, it goes down to 80%, and some legit folks miss the mark. That's just how the military rolls. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose on the timing thing.
While the shifting NSS targets for jets or attrition or whatever are sometimes frustrating, they aren't unique to flight school. One year a promotion board my have to promote 95% and anyone who's not a child molester makes it. A few years later, it goes down to 80%, and some legit folks miss the mark. That's just how the military rolls. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose on the timing thing.
Think of barely making MIF in every single block of training as a lot like getting a D in every single one of your college courses- sure, you met the minimum standard for everything, but that doesn't mean you should graduate and get a diploma unless there is a really really really strong demand out there for college graduates and a lot of people in your class got even worse grades.
NSS is quality control by bell curve. We keep it around because it works and it works well enough- it doesn't always work perfectly but then nobody has come up with a substantially better replacement (and MIF is not a good replacement).
NSS is quality control by bell curve. We keep it around because it works and it works well enough- it doesn't always work perfectly but then nobody has come up with a substantially better replacement (and MIF is not a good replacement).
JTMEDLI, Take this as nicely and constructively as you can: if you spend as much time studying as you seem to sweating the NSS stuff - you won't need to worry about your NSS, it'll take care of itself. I hope you limit your laments to this forum and that you don't share your paranoia with other studs - it might make them want to punch you.
Life's not fair and this business can be cold and heartless. Get a helmet.
I am failing to see how anyone could be spending the time sweating their NSS. I am too busy staying balls deep in the books and practicing briefs/chair flying for the next day..(ESP given the crap wx) After seeing that page in the JPATS that has the stupid huge equation and breakdown I automatically decided not to worry about it. Lord knows I may not be Han Solo in the cockpit, but at the end of the day when the IP says I did a good job that day and I get my handshake, I am content and get back to the house for tomorrows brief.
I think you have a future in Naval Air. Sure, Luke had the Force and all, but it's rare to find someone who acknowledges Solo's skill. I mean, he flew INTO an asteroid field, then flew back out and then did a Clear Deck on the side of some other ship. That takes skill and I don't care about your T-16 and womprats.
(Bored with NSS and CTS, so figured I might as well derail the thread properly).
Not to mention he did that all without looking at a single checklist, do you think he had it memorized? However, I question his SA at times, I mean come on, landing inside an animal? I'm pretty sure that thing wasn't listed in the HOSTAC.
Eh, he's still mishap-free. Unlike that douche bag Lando who, at a minimum, created a HAZREP for losing the satellite dish.