No weapons for E-4 and below on watch

[Floppy_D]

ANYONE WHO SERVES IN THE U.S. MILITARY ... and does not posses a basic, inherent, came-to-the-party-with, or ... a trained-to-proficiency, learned, practiced knowledge and familiarity w/ a variety of personal small-arms ...

I shot my first pistol in the Navy. I was "qualled" on it on at boot and on the fantail of a DDG, and knew precisely shit about it. I took my short stack of E-2 dollars to Camp Allen to learn how to run a 92FS, so I felt better with it. Not because I wanted to be Jerry Miculek, but because I didn't want to hurt myself. The surface small arms training program, in my experience, is pathetic. I put a short squeeze of rounds through a 50 and was "qualled," without having been shown how to load/headspace it. As stated earlier, this isn't ass-pain for the juniors; it's for those that cut them loose untrained and armed. The first time I was taught a solid manual-of-arms for a sidearm was in the Armed Sentry Course... a fantastic school that I attended after a year of armed watchstanding. Count me in as a fan of this. Train the Sailors right.

 

[Jim123]

The surface small arms training program, in my experience, is pathetic. I put a short squeeze of rounds through a 50 and was "qualled," without having been shown how to load/headspace it.

You were probably too busy doing far more important things like crossing guard duty on that road along the piers, helping grown adults^H^H^H^H shipmates cross the street in a 20mph zone. Doesn't leave a young guy much extra time for fluff like weapons training...

As stated earlier, this isn't ass-pain for the juniors; it's for those that cut them loose untrained and armed.

Hopefully!

And good on you for taking the initiative to learn to shoot better on your own time.

 

[BigRed389]

For my rifle and pistol ribbons. Sorry if I wasn't clear.

Yeah, but I wouldn't pay for a ribbon qual either.

It's not like the quals are tactically useful training. Not saying basic marksmanship is useless, just that I'd rather spend my money on coaching or ammo, not a ribbon the Navy doesn't think I need to qualify on.

 

[BigRed389]

There is a solution to all this...we could just IA everybody. Then you could shoot more rounds than you ever wanted to, all training provided courtesy of the US Army.

 

[CommodoreMid]

You sure it was the President's Own and not the Drum and Bugle Corps? The Marine Corps Band looks more like an orchestra and has every instrument. The Drum and Bugle Corps is all brass and instruments people hit. It also has "real" Marines in it, as opposed to the President's Own.

Usually it's the Drum and Bugle Corps doing the Sunset Parades at the Marine Corps War Memorial and the Friday night parades at Eighth and I, as well.

This. The AMOI during my freshman year of ROTC had an MOS of percussionist. Yup, a musician DI.

 

[phrogdriver]

This. The AMOI during my freshman year of ROTC had an MOS of percussionist. Yup, a musician DI.

I bet he could march like a mo-fo.

 

[Flash]

There is a solution to all this...we could just IA everybody. Then you could shoot more rounds than you ever wanted to, all training provided courtesy of the US Army.

With the added bonus of wearing full battle rattle. Fun!

 

[eas7888]

With the added bonus of wearing full battle rattle. Fun!

If you're going to do it right, you have to add all the goodies

IOTV - 35lbs
ACH - 3.5lbs
M249 - 22lbs (loaded)
M249 Ammo - 20lbs

Now, if you throw in a ruck/assault pack, you'll be having a good ol' time.
This is why I like catching a ride places. It beats the hell out of walking.

 

[Flash]

I didn't know that either. I see from the USMB website that most if not all members are world class symphony type musicians. Most with Masters/Doctorates in Music or Performance. I guess the money they can make as E-6 to E-9 (maybe some WO types) is better than they can get out in town doing the same thing.

We had quite a few military band members who went to my church and lived in my neighborhood growing up (one tried to teach me piano), including an Assistant Director of the Marine band. It is actually one of the few 'guaranteed', full-time musician jobs out there and pays pretty well compared to some of the other 'full-time' jobs for musicians. Especially in todays economy where some symphonies are struggling.

They promote from within for their band leadership, the Assistant Director I know retired as a Major after 32 years and the current director is a Colonel. Not a bad gig if you can get it.

 

[eas7888]

Not a bad gig if you can get it.

That's a true statement. I have a friend on the Army side, and he's had the opportunity to travel and see the world, doing something he loves. All of that without having to fire a shot in anger, or hold a rifle for that matter. Not a bad gig at all.

 

[Brett327]

I don't follow, are you saying the problem is a lack of refresher training at follow on commands? or the problem is with the training received at RTC?

So, you're suggesting that a fam fire in bootcamp is sufficient training? That's all that most people in the Navy get. Even aircrews, who carry a 9mm when flying over Indian country, only shoot once every couple years prior to deployment. Again, hardly sufficient.

 

[MasterBates]

I have shot in the Navy 3 times.

Once AFTER my first deployment where I was carrying a sidearm.

Once at NAS Kingsville (don't ask why, it was part of the check in)

Once at Northwest Annex before this last cruise.

We were supposed to shoot at OCS, but given that our range date was 9/11/01.. It kind of got canceled.

 

[OldNavy]

All the recruits complete weapons training at RTC, Pistol and Shotgun as I recall. However, something could have changed, but I'd be surprised if that was removed from the curriculum in the recent past.

I went to Boot in Great Lakes in 1973, and we didn't live fire anythiing.

 

[Spekkio]

Being ATO sure is a fun job...the E-dog's recite the definition of deadly force verbatim everyday, but when you ask them to apply it in a practical situation you get a deer-in-headlights look like 80% of the time... and it's not exclusive to E-3 and below.

Clearly we need more wrote memorization and less range time :icon_roll.

EDIT: Unfortunately, it's pretty clear that small-arms training is not a priority in the Navy. What needs to happen is that personnel be extensively trained in their initial training -- whether it be boot camp, USNA, NROTC, OCS, whatever. By extensively I mean taking a page out of the USMC's book, and not just making people memorize verbatim definitions and safety precautions.

"Range time" should include more than sending a few dozen rounds at a piece of paper. And it needs to occur at least monthly in port and bigger surface ships could probably work this into monthly at sea.

However, budget constraints will never allow that to happen...it's hard enough to get people range time at all, let alone actually devote man-hours to *gasp* teaching people to proficiently handle a weapon. But as long as they can recite "Tab Alpha" at turnover everyday, we're safe.

 

[MIDNJAC]

Once at NAS Kingsville (don't ask why, it was part of the check in)

Never understood why Meridian doesn't do this as well. It's in the syllabus guide as an event.....and the rod and gun club is right by the flight line.