Navy cancels deployments, Air Force cancels air shows

[HAL Pilot]

Air shows are a big business. Cutting back on them is going to put a hit on a lot of summer income for folks.

But think of all the money that can now be redirected to welfare and the entitlement seekers....

 

[maxsonic]

I think he was referring to the DOD's paycheck to paycheck mentality. Unless I missed something (which I wouldn't doubt) our personal paychecks aren't on the chopping block... yet.

While that may be true for active duty, the DoD/Navy civilians who provide engineering and logistic support to Naval Aviation have 20% of their paycheck on the chopping block beginning in April and continuing through the end of FY13. More importantly, this means 20% (or greater, in some key areas) less time available to help keep aging Navy aircraft platforms in an "up" status.

MAX

 

[Alpha_Echo_606]

While that may be true for active duty, the DoD/Navy civilians who provide engineering and logistic support to Naval Aviation have 20% of their paycheck on the chopping block beginning in April and continuing through the end of FY13. More importantly, this means 20% (or greater, in some key areas) less time available to help keep aging Navy aircraft platforms in an "up" status.

MAX

This is very true, we have fewer aircraft scheduled to come through here this year and I've been told that number could be cut even more. On the up swing, we are seeing more commercial work coming in.

 

[TurnandBurn55]

VFA-106 is putting a big kabbash on the F-18 East demo. Skipper said just that, "How can we run a demo when CAG-3 doesn't have money to deploy?" How much it will be cut I am uncertain. I'm just a CONE and that stuff is way about my status.

Concur with all. Including the bit about being a CONE... I keed, I keed. But not really.

VFA-106 has canx'd the demo also. And I'm not sure it's a bad thing to have the Truman stay home. Really, Navy- do we need a 2.0 carrier presence that badly? If other countries didn't learn that we can move our floating airbases around, say, 1943... I don't know what to say. We're better off keeping the powder dry and focusing on training back in CONUS than on spending time continually worried about getting air wings to the bare minimums level to deploy again and again. JMO.

 

[Brett327]

You can heap a lot of the blame for the 2.0 presence on CENTCOM. The Navy is just doing what it's told. There were a number of attempts to avoid going back to 2.0, but a squeaky wheel gets a greasin'.

 

[wink]

I am sorry, I just can't seem to rationalize what is being done because of the sequestration threat and the numbers. 2013 DOD budget $671B. $553B of that is discretionary. $118B is for the lingering war effort, which will (hopefully) be next to zero in a short couple years. Sequestration amounts to cuts of $492B OVER TEN YEARS. OK, OK. I know there is a big chunk of the budget going to pay and benefits that aren't going to be cut, in the short term at least, and I am guessing that retirement pay and care for us old guys is included, not to be cut. Then there are the big ticket items already contracted for that we can't go without. But hey, just do the math and it amounts to roughly $50B a year for ten years. That is about 10% of the current budget. Come on, all this angst and anguish over a 10% cut? Most of it is in the out years with plenty of time to adjust. The one time I had a job (active duty) where I was responsible for budgeting I am absolutely certain I could have found 10% and not broken a sweat. Back in 2003 I took a 23% pay cut to keep my airline out of bankruptcy. Not one employee group took less than a %10 cut in pay. I know what a 10% or more cut looks and feels like. What I see DOD doing doesn't look like it to me. What am I missing here?

 

[BigRed389]

I am sorry, I just can't seem to rationalize what is being done because of the sequestration threat and the numbers. 2013 DOD budget $671B. $553B of that is discretionary. $118B is for the lingering war effort, which will (hopefully) be next to zero in a short couple years. Sequestration amounts to cuts of $492B OVER TEN YEARS. OK, OK. I know there is a big chunk of the budget going to pay and benefits that aren't going to be cut, in the short term at least, and I am guessing that retirement pay and care for us old guys is included, not to be cut. Then there are the big ticket items already contracted for that we can't go without. But hey, just do the math and it amounts to roughly $50B a year for ten years. That is about 10% of the current budget. Come on, all this angst and anguish over a 10% cut? Most of it is in the out years with plenty of time to adjust. The one time I had a job (active duty) where I was responsible for budgeting I am absolutely certain I could have found 10% and not broken a sweat. Back in 2003 I took a 23% pay cut to keep my airline out of bankruptcy. Not one employee group took less than a %10 cut in pay. I know what a 10% or more cut looks and feels like. What I see DOD doing doesn't look like it to me. What am I missing here?

I think the problem is from the operating forces perspective, it's not really 10%.
For the part of the FY13 DON budget that most people and the operating forces will see, it's more like a 25% operating budget cut (~$40B OMN budget, ~$10B shortfall with sequester+year long CR). That's 25% to the budget to operate and maintain forces at readiness.
That and we basically are playing a game of chicken with Congress, and it looks like they may call our bluff. In the long run, there's time to move funds around to mitigate the OMN shortfalls, but the way that it's being triggered now, it's not an option in the short term. And throw in the fact we went through the first half of the year with a fiscal model where the cuts associated with sequestration and CR wouldn't happen...

I'm not a PPBE expert, but that's how I understand it.

Edit: Slides at end of this article breakdown past just the operating budget: http://hamptonroads.com/2013/02/navy-gets-more-specific-budget-reductions

 

[wink]

I think the problem is from the operating forces perspective, it's not really 10%.
For the part of the FY13 DON budget that most people and the operating forces will see, it's more like a 25% operating budget cut (~$40B OMN budget, ~$10B shortfall with sequester+year long CR). That's 25% to the budget to operate and maintain forces at readiness.
That and we basically are playing a game of chicken with Congress, and it looks like they may call our bluff. In the long run, there's time to move funds around to mitigate the OMN shortfalls, but the way that it's being triggered now, it's not an option in the short term. And throw in the fact we went through the first half of the year with a fiscal model where the cuts associated with sequestration and CR wouldn't happen...

I'm not a PPBE expert, but that's how I understand it.

OK, I get that, to a degree. Are you telling me that the chuck of untouchable money in the aggregate DOD budget is so large that a larger proportion of the cuts fall to OMN? I can understand that. But from 10% (across the board proportional) to 25%? A 150% increase in share? I'd sure like to see what DOD thinks is so important to be set aside from their share of cuts only to have it befall disproportionally on OMN. After all, the military is nothing if not operational and trained.

 

[Flash]

OK, I get that, to a degree. Are you telling me that the chuck of untouchable money in the aggregate DOD budget is so large that a larger proportion of the cuts fall to OMN? I can understand that. But from 10% (across the board proportional) to 25%? A 150% increase in share? I'd sure like to see what DOD thinks is so important to be set aside from their share of cuts only to have it befall disproportionally on OMN. After all, the military is nothing if not operational and trained.

Military personnel pay is explicitly protected and many procurement programs have already been paid for so far this FY leaving operations and maintenance one of the main things left to cut. DoD civil servants are also looking at being furloughed once a week from April until 30 Sept for a total of 22 days meaning they will lose a month of pay out of 5.

 

[BigRed389]

Military personnel pay is explicitly protected and many procurement programs have already been paid for so far this FY leaving operations and maintenance one of the main things left to cut. DoD civil servants are also looking at being furloughed once a week from April until 30 Sept for a total of 22 days meaning they will lose a month of pay out of 5.

And between mil pay, procurement, and OMN, you've pretty much got the entire DOD budget...

 

[Steve Wilkins]

What am I missing here?

Not a thing, Wink. Not a thing.

 

[wink]

I understand some line items are more sacred than others. Still, just cyphering with the 'ol #2 pencil on a Big Chief paper tablet, it doesn't look right. Something did occur to me whilst erasing some mathematics I attempted beyond my ability. We are half way through the fiscal year, and as pointed out, some money that would have otherwise not been spent or reduced, is already gone. So are they going to take a full year's budget cut over just six months? That is simply bull shit. Also something that could be corrected with a wave of the legislative wand.

 

[BigRed389]

I understand some line items are more sacred than others. Still, just cyphering with the 'ol #2 pencil on a Big Chief paper tablet, it doesn't look right. Something did occur to me whilst erasing some mathematics I attempted beyond my ability. We are half way through the fiscal year, and as pointed out, some money that would have otherwise not been spent or reduced, is already gone. So are they going to take a full year's budget cut over just six months? That is simply bull shit. Also something that could be corrected with a wave of the legislative wand.

Yes.
And that's why some people are saying that if the cuts go through, it would have been better for us to have been hit with them at the "cliff", so the effects aren't just now compressed into half a year.

And it's more than just some line items being sacred cows, even if we decided some stuff really wasn't absolutely vital, we (even the top levels of DOD) don't have budgetary authority to turn, say procurement or R&D cuts into OMN money to keep the lights on, planes flying, and ships at sea. Which is why CJCS is asking for reprogramming authority to be able to do just that.

So to go back to your household 10% budget analogy, it's more like if you got hit with a 10% pay cut, but now you could only adjust the food budget to realize those savings because even though there are other things you would probably want to touch first (utility usage, luxuries) can't be adjusted this year.

 

[helolumpy]

The military can absorb this cut to the budget as long as leadership (specifically strategic level leadership) understands that the toy they have like to play with for war and humanitarian assistance is no longer available.
I don't mind doing less with less as long as leadership understands that we are actually going to do less with less!

Earthquake hits Haiti...? I'm sorry, I have nothing that can deploy right now. Important country wants to conduct a bi-lat exercise...? Sorry, no one available for that mission.
You want a USAF G-5 for travel....? Sorry, they are all down for maintenance while we await parts. 2.0 carrier presence....? Sorry, it's not 2005 anymore.

If senior leadership (both POTUS, Congress and all the folks with "The Honorable" as titles) wants to play these games fine, but they need to realize that if there is another Katrina, tsunami, earthquake or uprising in a foreign country, all we can do is watch it happen on CNN/FOX/MSNBC, etc and say, 'remember when we could have done something to help'?

 

[scoolbubba]

IE...this can't be a bluff. We can't ask guys who just came off deployment, surged, and then returned from surge to short notice turn to the crisis du jour. Sorry...all our shit is broken, there's no money to fix it, no one's current and all our planes/helos/ships are down for mx. Pay the bills to get the lights turned back on and we'll be able to get some stuff done...until then, try the salvation army.

Helium hands saying "me me me I can do that!" don't help us at all right now.